Alex Salmond - acquitted of all 14 charges

[rabbitsnose]

Just now

Really worry for Dido when it dawns that the vast majority of the world's countries are independent.

XDownwiththissortofthingX

Really worry for Dido when it dawns that the vast majority of the world's countries are independent

And you'll get to yell "Freedom" whilst covered in blue paint.

What nonsense. Still your comment reinforces just how ridiculous "independence" is.

Oh and thank the sanity of No voters that the separatists lost in 2014. You do understand I hope that Scotland has a huge budget deficit? And that the hugely depleted value of oil (on which the separatists placed so much stock at the time) and the currently non existent tourist industry won't help Scotland now?

If the separatists had got their way they would be begging Westminster for help.

I'm a bit shocked at the emotional reactions on the FMR board. This is where I have learnt so much about thinking and looking at the evidence.

But here we have people being automatically believed because they are women

I agree that is probably impossible in such a high profile, and highly politicised, case to remove political allegiances, but... really?

The evidence of this case might have failed the legal threshold, but statistics show (time and time and time again) that women rarely lie about sexual assault and rape, very few sexual assault and rape cases ever make it to court, and guilty verdicts for the accused who see the inside of a courthouse are about as rare as hens' teeth. We also know from recent cases that abusers can and have assaulted their victims in broad daylight, be it groping on the Tube or on live TV broadcasts.

Has Salmond been found not guilty? Yes. Are the posters of FWR likely to use the readily available information on successful prosecutions of sexual assault and rape to form their own opinions? Also yes.

Debating politics, political ideology, political infighting and conspiracy theories is a completely legitimate exercise. But there should also be room to discuss the fact that some men in positions of power use their teflon-status to harm others. And this case will cause much wider harm to victims of sexual assault and rape, regardless of who votes SNP, or even whether or not there is truth in the allegations. Look at Twitter, look at this thread!

Jesus. Might have to turn off wifi whilst isolating, lest I end up an unproductive sobbing mess

this case will cause much wider harm to victims of sexual assault and rape, regardless of who votes SNP, or even whether or not there is truth in the allegations.

I really can’t fathom why the CPS went ahead with the case. And if they were going ahead, why they didn’t bring a much better case.

From the reports I’ve seen, it might be that this case was part of a vendetta. We’ve seen in other areas just how compromised the Scottish Government is. All those people who’ve inveigled themselves into positions of power, and all the groups dangerously intertwined.

I hope there’s an enquiry, and that somehow or other, that can be genuinely independent. There’s something very horrible going on in Scottish politics right now.

I know who the main personalities are but Scottish politics (to say nothing of SNP internecine strife) is a closed book to me so please let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree with this.

Am I right in saying that the Salmond wing want to be more aggressive in pressing for independence (which is their main focus) whereas Team Sturgeon are more about using independence to get people on board and then directing their energies towards enacting a Social Justice agenda in the way that Zoe Williams, in her recent piece, wanted to redirect the energy of feminists towards causes such as climate change?

I really can’t fathom why the CPS went ahead with the case. And if they were going ahead, why they didn’t bring a much better case.

There are many of us on this board, and in RL, who have seen our cases dropped, and wondered what we would have had to have endured to get to court, and to secure a conviction. I don't disagree that many mistakes have been made in this case, and the harm I referred to will have been caused by the CPS and by the wider public response - my apologies if that was not clear.

Craig Murray is a conspiracy theorist who supports Assange

So, what is Murray's conspiracy in this case? That it was never really about the sexual assault cases but about giving Assange up to the US to prosecute him for espionage?

Fun fact: this is precisely how it has played out.

I just can't...

I think the problem is that many of the incidents were relatively trivial- of the wandering hands variety rather than Harvey Weinstein. They are seen more as a nuisance women have to put up with rather than an assault.

With the benefit of hindsight that is the wrong way to view them but that is what happened and Gordon Jackson played up on that.

So far as SNP policy, as far as I'm aware they are all hell bent on "freedom" come hell or high water. It's the only goal- what is actually good for people living in Scotland is irrelevant.

Cherry, whom so many of you (inexplicably) admire, is cheerleading for Salmond. I'm sure Cherry has her sights on deposing Sturgeon.

I see Cherry has now said she will not follow in Salmond's "two job" footsteps and keep a Westminster seat if she gets Ruth Davidson's Holyrood seat. If she gets into Holyrood I'm sure she will be gunning to take down Sturgeon.

Are the posters of FWR likely to use the readily available information on successful prosecutions of sexual assault and rape to form their own opinions? Also yes

I understand and agree with that rule of thumb but, in this case, we have access to all the significant details.

It’s the COPF in Scotland who decide if cases are to go to court. They are not the CPS. Different body and legal procedures in Scotland.

I know it's the COPF. I used CPS because I thought more posters on here knew that acronym than the COPF. I also didn't think the acronym was the most important point

It depends which body you are blaming for the farce. One that had nothing to do with it if you say CPS. Accuracy in law is vital!

I see Cherry has now said she will not follow in Salmond's "two job" footsteps and keep a Westminster seat if she gets Ruth Davidson's Holyrood seat

Both Cherry and Angus Robertson were trying to get nominated for this seat. Neither is currently an MSP. Unusual for them to be fighting over it, unless they think there is soon going to be a vacancy at the top of the party. The First Minister would have to be an MSP.

Very interesting article from a defence (yes, defence) witness.

What an oddly written article especially when you realise it's a former speechwriter complaining about people believing AS' words - the words the speech writer would have written for him.
It reads as though he didn't want to be a defence witness but the law made him one.
It seems safe to say that a lot of newspapers wedded to a particular point of view, did not want AS to walk and they are skirting very close to the wind with strongly opinionated pieces. It's odd that they see him as more a threat than Sturgeon or perhaps they hoped the case would sink AS and the GRA would finish NS.

Harvey Weinstein is sling for a retrial.

In Edinburgh.

Obvs.

Asking

Craig Murray didn't hear all the evidence, I'm not sure he heard any of the complainers at all as the court was cleared. In terms of SNP infighting I can offer no insight but just look at what was said in court. The former first minister admitted having a sexual encounter, a 'sleepy cuddle' and touching various women who he had considerable power over. How is that ok? Gordon Jackson started his summing up wishing the former First Minister 'was a better man'. The jury decided no crimes had been committed but I don't understand how feminists can condone the admitted behaviour.

Yeah. I’m not a particularly good person. I’m not especially inclined to practise sexual fidelity. I’m quite touchy-feely. I like a cuddle when I’m sleepy. Do I do any of this with younger, more vulnerable people who are working for me and might find it difficult to tell me to fuck off? No, because I’m not a bullying abuser.

It’s not difficult to use actual words to find out whether someone else wants to join in a bit of sleepy cuddling. Sometimes people say no, and that’s fine by me. How hard is it actually to say, “ok then; no problem; see you soon”? It’s not the end of the world; some people don’t fancy me; I’ll live.

I have no time for men who make excuses for their bad behaviour. Grow up.

The former first minister admitted having a sexual encounter, a 'sleepy cuddle' and touching various women who he had considerable power over

I've spent over 35 years in a sector where one will encounter many rich and powerful men.

Thinking back on it I've come across a few senior men who had awful tempers; a few who cheated on spouses with employees (but in genuine consensual relationships) One who potentially could have been a fantastic mentor for younger entrants but who limited himself to only taking an interest in the pretty young women (and was roundly criticised by colleagues for taking the pretty young things out to lunch at the end of their placements)

None of them however came anywhere close to Salmond's behaviour. I never heard anyone say they could not be trusted to be left alone with women.

Yet the great feminist Joanna Cherry is now cheerleading for Salmond's return and apparently sees nothing wrong in his behaviour.

She doesn't agree with you that was Salmond's behaviour. There was no proof rotas had been changed. No proof of a policy that said women couldn't work alone and there were witnesses who said they worked alone with him and others that said there was no policy.
I'm not defending Salmond or the SNP. I think this entire case stinks but you can't keep repeating as 'fact' points that a court of law did not find to be compelling/true and that both witnesses and paper evidence contradicted.
I know it suits your anti-SNP rhetoric but it doesn't do women any favours to pretend this case was something it wasn't. Women have already been failed by the internal process and the lack of evidence presented by the prosecution. Questions need to be asked about both to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Salmond admitted the cuddling in bed.

Salmond admitted the touching and being tactile.

Salmond admitted to behaviour which in 35 years in business I've never come across.

I know it suits your anti-SNP rhetoric but it doesn't do women any favours to pretend this case was something it wasn't

I don't know what your rhetoric is but the idea that Salmond's behaviour wasn't vile, manipulative and a abuse of power just because it did not meet the criteria to be criminal does women no favours.

In fairness non of us have heard the evidence he could be totally innocent and be a victim of a horrible smear campaign. Noone outside of the courtroom knows what evidence was presented