Caitlyn Jenner on Mrs Brown

[DtPeabodysLoosePants]

I've heard about this person, seen a head shot or two but not read much.
Tonight I've tuned into All Round To Mrs Brown's out of curiosity.
I'm disturbed. My brain will not compute this very tall person, with a plastic face, skinny masculine legs, odd body shape in a dress and a masculine voice is a woman. My brain just says no. It will not accept the lie. And the things they said just compounded that. 10 kids, had Olympic swimmers, and has retired the erm, requisite anatomy rather than removing it. I don't find this person inspirational at all despite what they are saying on the show. How is this inspirational? I don't know much about them but how are we to align these two things when we know that what we are being told is not truth? Biologically we are designed to identify a persons sex (a wise poster explained this on another thread) so how can we separate the truth from the falsehood and more importantly, why should we accept what is not true?

CJ being awarded Woman of the Year is what peaked me.

My 5 yo ds correctly sexed CJ when I showed him a clip (that was clean!) For him it was the voice that tipped him off. For dds it was the height, the body shape, the posture, and yes, the voice although I put it on mute first.

I didn't know CJ was 70 though! So much surgery.

I kind of got the impression that Mrs Brown was taking the piss somewhat and using comedy as a cover for that

Mrs Brown has never used comedy in any of his shows as far as I was aware.

Mrs Brown has never used comedy in any of his shows as far as I was aware

I had never watched Mrs Brown before. I assumed I would hate it. I watched this episode and it's every bit as dire as I expected it would be. It's not in the least bit funny.

Oh I can't watch that shit but I've seen Caitlyn Jenner on other things, my mind simply accepts Caitlyn as a trans woman. I loved Bruce Jenner on The Kardashians, I kind of miss him.

I'm going to pluck FiLs eyebrows and put him in a nice dress, this is inspriring 🙏

my mind simply accepts Caitlyn as a trans woman

I agree.

My brain will not compute this very tall person, with a plastic face, skinny masculine legs, odd body shape in a dress and a masculine voice is a woman. My brain just says no

Aside from the plastic face one of female colleagues ticks all the other boxes. I appreciate that as far as this board is concerned it's only xx or xy which is the determining factor so listing these non- feminine characteristics seems odd.

Are you saying your colleague is hard to recognise as a woman Dido? Because I think that's the point that was being made, that Jenner is not recognised as female.

My brain will not compute this very tall person, with a plastic face, skinny masculine legs, odd body shape in a dress and a masculine voice is a woman. My brain just says no

Aside from the plastic face one of female colleagues ticks all the other boxes. I appreciate that as far as this board is concerned it's only xx or xy which is the determining factor so listing these non- feminine characteristics seems odd.

Dr Katie Alcock (Lancaster University Developmental Psychology)

December 2019
'But HOW CAN YOU TELL'
(extract)
The barrister went on to ask how Maya could tell that someone is male or female without having been present at that person’s birth. Happily the rest of us live in the real world where it is pretty easy to work out whether someone is male or female: and no, it doesn’t depend on whether they have highlighted cheekbones and manicured fingernails.
So, how do we tell whether someone is male or female? Well, we are very good at it and — like a lot of human cognitive skills — we base it on a number of cues (pieces of information). In fact, we’re very good at it from the time we are tiny babies.
One of the best ways to tell a male body from a female body is gait — how you walk. You don’t need a whole body in front of you, or even the outline of a body, to tell male from female bodies." (continues to discuss face, voice recognition etc)

medium.com/@katieja/but-how-can-you-tell-7901324d0919

Apparently there are 6500 genetic differences between men and women.

A man (for instance), going out of his way to mimic the characteristics of a woman, is just confirming it. Otherwise why bother?

Are you saying your colleague is hard to recognise as a woman Dido?

My colleague ticks every one, bar the surgery, of the unwomanly characteristics you listed.

We intrinsically know. Our brains put together all the pieces subconsciously and it's not easy to bypass that because it's intrinsic. And yes, gait is very noticeable. On a conscious level we are aware it's unnatural and doesn't match.

I wonder why my posts about Bruce Jenner cartoons in Private Eye were deleted?
He did not hand back his Olympic medals when he changed name.

Hmmm I wonder why 🤔😄

I wonder why my posts about Bruce Jenner cartoons in Private Eye were deleted?

It'll have been nothing to do with you posting about the cartoons in Private Eye but more the comments you made afterwards

My colleague ticks every one, bar the surgery, of the unwomanly characteristics you listed.

But it's not those characteristics that make someone a woman or not, they are indicators we use to figure out if someone is a woman or not.

eg. someone might have corona virus if they have a cough, so it's an indicator, but just because someone has a cough, doesn't mean they have corona virus.

It's bizarre to suggest that seeing someone who's 6'2" (US size 13 feet apparently!) with a typically masculine shape and thinking "that's a man" is something that apparently we shouldn't be doing, because one in a million women (who will certainly have plenty of indicators in other ways that they are women which we'd notice) might also be 6'2" with broad shoulders, low voice, and narrow hips. If you hear hooves, you think horses, not zebras, and that's a completely reasonable thing to do - plus, in this case, accurate, given Jenner's history!

My colleague ticks every one, bar the surgery, of the unwomanly characteristics you listed.

I didn't list them, but what point are you trying to make? It's incredibly easy to tell the difference between men and women, most parts of their bodies are different, they feel different, they look different. We rarely have to consciously think about it because it's so obvious.

I don't think that transwomen actually want to pass as ordinary women i.e. one that you pass every day in the street living their lives as a female human rather than in a role. Several older women actresses too seem determined never to grow old gracefully and good luck to them if they have the time, money and inclination to spend on outward appearance.

I keep reading on twitter that we should not fall in love with the outer appearance of people, but should look for the inner person: hence the need for lesbians not to exclude transwomen from their dating pool.

However, apart from some "old fashioned" transsexuals such as Jan Morris and Debbie Hayton, the current trend seems to be to become a stereotype of woman, possibly of the late 50s. At the same time there is a growing movement of women who wish to be the homemakers of old - the song "Wives Should Always be Lovers" comes to mind. Sorry girls but that ship sailed years ago.

Meanwhile, many of us are just fighting to retain the hard won advances in our treatment, so they may be passed to our children and grand children.

“I don't think that transwomen actually want to pass as ordinary women i.e. one that you pass every day in the street living their lives as a female human rather than in a role”

Most don’t pass and a portion seem to fetishise their idea of womanhood. Many do try and blend in without notice. Id be interested to know what age those who do blend in better started transitioning.

I'll have a try...

Dido - are you saying that your colleague at work is sometimes mistaken for a man or a transwoman?

I'm just intrigued that a poster should list a number of physical characteristics which she considers are unwomanly.

If you didn't know my colleague and saw her only on a television show she ticks all the unwomanly features.

But that's not what she did, Dido. You are deliberately choosing to misread and misconstrue what was actually meant. It was really very clear.

And you still haven't answered an earlier question about whether your colleague is ever mistaken for a man or a transwoman.

It's exactly what she did.

... and saw her only on a television show..

Eh?