India Willoughby in the Times

[Igneococcus]

About trans prisoners:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/008753e2-6546-11ea-b021-fae459863cfa?shareToken=f8d7881223aa8c869ad368a2bafae7ed

I haven't actually read it yet, I need to go to work for a bit today.

Because there are many here who are not just concerned about self ID.

They may say we have self ID in effect now anyway. They do not want any people with a Y chromosomes or born with a penis in female spaces, ever, no matter how they identify

And there are some here who would like to present that position as wild extremism, without actually addressing how the motivation of a male in transitioning makes the slightest difference in said male being allowed to make a single sex space, mixed sex.

Basically, like Willoughby, the argument goes that you can have your boundaries, up to the point where the men deem it reasonable, then you budge up.

Oh, and Willoughby is self IDing, because Willoughby doesn't have a GRC.

Oh, and Willoughby is self IDing, because Willoughby doesn't have a GRC

She might have now.

Willoughby said that they refused to apply for one on principle of it being like carrying a star of David in their bag, if memory serves. They may have changed their mind, it's true.

Well it would certainly fit in with this True Trans / not true trans take Willoughby currently has going on.

No doubt.

I appreciate those that view this pragmatically, but Willoughby is in this for Willoughbyself. They do not care one whit for women's rights, they just understand that if any Tom, Dick or Harry can simply become Thomasina, Ladydique or Harriet, Willoughby will lose their special status, and, more understandably, will end up facing an inevitable (and frequently warned about on here) backlash when the wider public registers what an almighty cock up self ID is.

I wonder if it's a comfort to India's ex wife and son, that India's views are being promoted by Britain's leading feminist organisation as the sensible voice on self ID?

As ever, I'd be more interested to hear feminists promoting trans widows perspectives than those of our ex husbands.

I thought this was a great article

Really? I thought it was India doing what India does bet - promoting India as somehow "different" and "better" than those other trans people.
Usual self-absorbed nonsense from someone who has as little regard for adult human females as the people India dismisses.

@GiantKitten

*The Howard League for Penal Reform says trans suicide attempts in the general prison population are 10 times higher than the average.

How can they know that? hmm*

Have they stopped to consider one main reason behind that is the utter disappointment one would feel after being sold a lie for so long and that it could never come true? Transwomen are not women, no one outside of their narcissistic microsphere believes it.

There seems to be a discrepancy between the online version of this article and the print. The last sentence from the print version is missing. The final paragraph (in print) reads -

“Don’t you want to dress or look like a woman?” I ask. “No,” replies Chelsea. “It’s not worth the hassle. I’m happy in men’s clothes. I’m not interested in passing as a woman.” I have my suspicions as to what she might be interested in: a transfer to a different prison.

"No shit, Sherlock" springs to mind

It's ridiculous.

Does India think that if Chelsea wears a wig, gets some make-up on and dons a dress, it will all change?

I actually appreciate India speaking out about this stuff. Was thinking this the other day when India was on Good Morning. There is a level of committment and I believe a genuine desire to "be" a woman that India displays that I respect - it's the consistency of it.

The consistency is wanting other people to treat IW as a woman & also to be the main commentator.

Willoughby's position has flip-flopped with regards self-id. Willoughby's disregard for women has not.

April 2018 article by India Willoughby for PinkNews:
'Britain’s rampant transphobia has me worried for my life'
(extract)

'We’re heading for a modern day Stonewall riot – unless the government and media clamp down on what has become rampant transphobia.

Transgender people are being bullied and hounded like never before – and we need to be very careful about where all this unfettered hate dressed up as “free speech” is going.

The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people.

Seriously. That’s no exaggeration.

The tabloids are no surprise, but Mumsnet?

Yeah, what is supposed to be a family-friendly parenting site has it’s claws out for the trans community.

And it all feels very orchestrated.

Every Sunday, regular as clockwork, I wake up to tabloid tales warning that society as we know it will end if trans women are further accommodated into normal society. Deviant, dirty sex monsters. Mentally-ill, deluded and dangerous. A cult leading youngsters astray. It’s like being back in the 1970s with the News of the World.

Even trans kids are seen as fair game. Radio hosts warning of assaults and unwanted pregnancies because trans girls have been allowed into the Girl Guides.

What’s the problem? Girls have been in the Scouts since 1991 and the world is still spinning.

And now we have groups of hardliners who will never accept trans women on any level, travelling the country, fanning the flames of hate.

Last year, I attended an event with lots of other LGBT people at Downing Street, where Theresa May promised to make the lives of trans people safer and easier, with the implementation of a new Gender Recognition Act. A key point of which will be allowing trans people to legally self-identify as a man or woman, without jumping through numerous bureaucratic hoops.

I totally get why many women might have concerns about this, given there have been so many ridiculous over-the-top debates where the scenario of sex-offender in a dress is trotted out.

It just doesn’t bear up to scrutiny though. Honestly. Self-identification in no way incentivises someone to commit a sex offence. It doesn’t make it easier or more likely

Waving a piece of paper or shouting “I’m a woman” is not going to buy any leniency from the police or courts." (continues)
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/24/india-willoughby-transphobia-opinion-worried-for-my-life-mumsnet/

Willoughby's PN article was written in the time between White's sexual assault of women prisoners in the female prison estate & these assaults becoming public knowledge.

Opportunities to go inside HMP Stafford, a category-C men’s prison, are rare. The only type of inmate you’ll meet behind the barbed-wire-topped walls and heavy, mechanised doors are men who — for their own safety — cannot be allowed to walk the landings of other jails for fear of attack.

Are they?

April 2019 Express & Star:
'HMP Stafford: Inside the sex-offenders only jail which housed Rolf Harris'
(extract)
"As prisons go, this is a very different place.

Inside, every inmate has been convicted of sex offences.

Walking around the place, most inmates could pass off as normal, decent, everyday members of the public.

Except they are not. Inmates here have been convicted of crimes ranging from moderate to serious offences. Some inmates are convicted paedophiles.

Others have been convicted of ‘none contact’ crimes, where offences can include viewing indecent material online.

The cohort of prisoners at HMP Stafford means it is a prison totally unlike most British jails. The risk of violence here is low and drugs and gangs are not rife, said Elizabeth Attwood, head of residence and services at the prison.

Instead, there is a calm atmosphere where staff and inmates go about their business with relative ease and safety.

This is because it is a rehabilitative prison, meaning the regime here is different from most prisons.

“We make sure to prepare inmates for ordinary life once they complete their prison sentences,” said Ralph Lubkowksi, the prison’s governor, who has been here for a year.

“Our prison is about rehabilitating inmates through a range of programmes so they won’t reoffend again.

“Rehabilitation is important. These people will be released back into the public.”" (continues)

www.expressandstar.com/news/crime/2019/04/27/inside-the-sex-offenders-only-jail-which-houses-rolf-harris-hmp-stafford/

Waving a piece of paper or shouting “I’m a woman”
(see also the McKinnon defence of "I'm legally a woman")

Add this to the list of weird things women have never had to do to prove they are women.

Yes. India is no ally to women. India is an ally to India.

Thanks @WhereYouLeftIt - I'd read the online version twice and was sure by the rhythm that a concluding sentence had been cut.

IW from Times article in OP
Cards on the table. I am trans, the full, medical-transitioned variety. I am not a fan of the divisive campaign that says anyone who calls themselves a woman should be treated like a woman at all times. But I was willing to listen to any compelling arguments.

Willoughby now self identifies not as trans but as a 'cis-woman'
GMB October 2019

Medical transitioners are outnumbered by a new intake, who have taken the trans word and redefined it.

Hmm. India should have a long sit and think about this perhaps.