This is taking the proverbial

[Iggypoppie]

Two men (appear to be trans activists) used the women's changing room in M & S. They were allowed to stat but insist that a trans or non binary person might have committed suicide as a result. M & S have fallen over backwards to apologise and the two men are threatening legal action. I'm guessing cos they want cash.

twitter.com/Glasgow_Times/status/1238373480170573824?s=20

twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1238400696409563138?s=20

So they don’t appear to be trans or non binary. Just two men demanding access to the women’s changing room- plus it seems to be the one near the women’s lingerie which if anything like our M&S one is individual cubical but also has an open area some women go into to get a better look in mirrors etc. And M&S are falling over themselves apologising that the two men were made to feel uncomfortable? This is all just so fucked up now.

But no man would do this....

And M&S wonder why their sales are falling.....FFS look after your women customers and the rest follows.

Dreadful

Honestly how fucking stupid

And the ‘didn't know there was a mens changing room’ what a load of bollocks...

extract

"Both men, who we are not naming, say they were subjected to inappropriate comments while trying on a pair of trousers in a changing room situated within the Glasgow Fort store earlier this month.

One of the men wanted to try on trousers to wear to his gran’s funeral and on approaching a fitting room, he was told by a member of the public that it was for women only to “try on bras”.

A member of the M&S team then told him: “I can’t stop you from using it,” and he proceeded to try on the item with his partner.

While in the changing room, they heard the member of the public say, “I wouldn’t want to get my t**s out in front of other men.”

It is then claimed the M&S staff member laugh and agreed before saying, “we have to allow it because of all this new stuff."

The couple complained to a manager instore who told them that she would reiterate to staff that fitting rooms were unisex. They also complained in writing to the store and are now looking to escalate their complaint further.

He said: “We were made to feel so little and made to feel that there was a perverse motive which there certainly was not.” (continues)

He continued: “People have to watch what they say. Sadly there have been people who have tragically ended their life because they can’t come out as trans or non-binary and they are not accepted.

“I could have been a non-binary or trans person, they don’t know that.” (continues)

Wouldn't most men who took their trousers to an M&S changing room to be told, 'sorry this is where women try on bras' ask, 'where's the men's changing room?'

M&S are being played.

Welcome to today's segment in "this never happens". I'm looking forward to using this story next time someone says "men would never abuse self-id, there are far easier ways to access women". Apparently you don't even need to self-id anymore, just say you "could be trans or non-binary" and you're good to go.

“ I could have been a non-binary or trans person, they don’t know that.” It’s amazing when they make our points for us

The couple complained to a manager instore who told them that she would reiterate to staff that fitting rooms were unisex.

M&S need to be doing this. They should be putting up warning signs because lots of women probably think that the changing rooms in the women's underwear section are single sex, and they deserve to be told that this is not the case.

I've just had a survey to complete about John Lewis and they had a lovely free text box asking about the one thing they could do to improve their service. I begged them to keep fitting rooms single sex and to make it clear that they are doing that. I suggested mixed sex areas in addition to the two single sex, for reasons of true inclusivity. I feel better now

I know this store very well. It's a huge M&S with a massive men's section. They have 100% chosen to leave the men's section (where OF COURSE there are fitting rooms), and walk through all the women's undies to the lingerie fitting room.

M&S “The fitting rooms are located within our womenswear and menswear departments and therefore are mainly used by customers of that gender, however, as an inclusive retailer and in line with most other retailers, we allow customers the choice of fitting room in respect of how they identify themselves.”

M&S should have clear signs which make clear all changing rooms are mixed sex.

It is, of course, not an 'inclusive' policy since many women will not wish to try on clothes or be fitted for a bra in a mixed sex space and so be excluded.

I have to say, I'm not sure what I'd make of it if someone said to me, well, these rooms are for men to try on trousers but you are still allowed to use them. It's incoherent. Do they mean they are meant to be near the trousers so they are convenient, or what?

They may have been taking the piss, knowing that there was a controversy, but the lack of clarity is going to cause confusion with some people who are just trying to follow whatever the barmy rules are.

While in the changing room, they heard the member of the public say, “I wouldn’t want to get my ts out in front of other men.”

No woman would say this, for goodness sake. And 'other men'? Little bit of a slip there.

It is then claimed the M&S staff member laugh and agreed before saying, “we have to allow it because of all this new stuff."

Yeah right. It's right up there with 'gran's funeral'.

So they were allowed to take their clothes into the bra fitting room, despite numerous fitting rooms designed just for them, and their only complaint is that a shop worker actually agreed that they could, and a made up story about a woman in the queue who, even fictionally, unsurprisingly didn't want to get naked in front of strange men.

Of course, this is a story that counts in our favour, not theirs. Fools.

we allow customers the choice of fitting room in respect of how they identify themselves.

Yet these men, who identify themselves men, were welcomed to use the fitting room intended for women to try on bras. I guess that in this case they identified as Entitled.

He said: “We were made to feel so little and made to feel that there was a perverse motive which there certainly was not.”

Oh you poor wee things. Any thought for how the women whose privacy and security you invaded were made to feel?

I have to say, I'm not sure what I'd make of it if someone said to me, well, these rooms are for men to try on trousers but you are still allowed to use them.

If I knew that I was not male, I would thank them for the invitation & then ask where the women's changing room was. I might ask about the apparently strange rule & probably enquire if men were also invited to use the women's changing room.

If it wasnt busy Id probably have a chat with the M&S staff about possible problems, not least how tricky this must be for them.

Yes, that's nice for you Rowantres, but it totally misses the point.

If you make statements that don't seem to make sense, that contain contradictory elements, people will misunderstand them. They will try and figure out a way that they make sense, and since it doesn't make sense at least some people will interpret them in the wrong way. How can a room be for a particular group but also others allowed? One way to interpret that is that it was meant to be convenient for one group (close to the men's area, or the undergarments area, whatever) but was not meant to be exclusive.

So long as the direction is incoherent, the way people interpret it will be unpredictable.

He said: “We were made to feel so little and made to feel that there was a perverse motive which there certainly was not.”

Two men make a song and dance about being entitled to use a female changing room where women and young girls are taking their bras off.

perverse
/pəˈvəːs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
showing a deliberate and obstinate desire to behave in a way that is unreasonable or unacceptable.

I'm not sure why people think they are going to try to make money out of this? They were allowed to do exactly what they wanted. The only person who objected was some 'never to be traced and certainly entitled to her opinion' woman in the queue.

I sincerely hope they don't let this rest. Let's hear it from the rooftops.

people will misunderstand them

Pull the other one, it's got bells on. This is a clear case of men exploiting a stupid policy for political reasons, fetish reasons, or both.

If you make statements that don't seem to make sense, that contain contradictory elements, people will misunderstand them

Many people will ask.
Many people regardless of policy or invitation wouldnt use a changing room that was clearly for the opposite sex eg "its for women trying on bras" or "its for men but you (obviously female R0) can use it"

I have already said upthread that I think M&S should have clear signs so all customers know that the changing rooms are effectively mixed sex. There will of course always be a small proportion of people who dont think of the impact on other people (customers & staff) & put their own wants first.

The whole thing reads as some chancer’s wank fantasy to me. I’ve never been told by a member of shop staff ‘this is the changing room where women try bras on.’ Maybe if I’d asked specifically, but normally they would say lingerie.

Either way I’d have to question the motive of any man who thought they were entitled to use the lingerie fitting room. Decent blokes would back away.

Last time I went in M&S when DP bought trousers I was waiting outside and a man came to the door with his young DS. The lingerie section and the kids section are next to each other. The woman informed him it was the lingerie fitting room and he went crimson. My DP is female btw.

Either way I’d have to question the motive of any man who thought they were entitled to use the lingerie fitting room. Decent blokes would back away.

This argument that it's not safe because bad men will go in anyway is such an own goal. Because as you say, decent men won't go in the women's changing rooms. Only those with dubious motives (or by accident) will go somewhere they're not supposed to be. By saying you should go in, you're grouping yourself with that dubious motive group, not the decent men group

So two adult men have never set foot on a clothes shop before? Never tried anything on? Never realised that in most there are dedicated men's changing rooms in the men's departments?

Fuck off with your fake sob story incels

Bleurgh - utter creeps.
No (real) women anywhere have demanded that M & S hand over lingerie changing rooms to men. It's just men without boundaries who demand (and have been given access) to changing rooms where women are undressing.
So pleased that I no longer shop there. Hope M & S appreciate their new dodgy customers.

This is a story that has been purposely created.