Lesbian, Bisexual and Trans Women’s Health Inequalities debate HoP yesterday (Tuesday 10th March).

[MrsSnippyPants]

Very interesting debate yesterday on Lesbian, Bisexual and Trans Women’s Health Inequalities. It's worth browsing through, I find some of the statistics dubious and honestly fail to see again why the T is with the L and B when it comes to health.
I watched some of it and haven't read the whole of it yet but here's a taster:

"John Nicolson
Does my hon. Friend agree that while it now seems socially unacceptable to express anti-gay thoughts and feelings, by contrast we appear to be having an open season on trans people, which is deplorable. Does she also agree that that must be deeply disturbing for young trans people who are trying to come to terms with who they are?

Hannah Bardell
I absolutely agree. Technical details of legislation and the concerns that people may have can and should be discussed, but they have to be discussed in a respectful way. As my hon. Friend says, there is open season on trans people. We could literally cut and paste some of the rhetoric that was used against lesbian, gay and bi people the ’70s and ’80s. That it is now being used against trans people is just utterly deplorable. We must do everything we can to protect trans and non-binary people’s rights and their mental health.

We know the LGBT community, including lesbian, bi and trans women, experience significant health inequalities and specific barriers to services and support. Stonewall Scotland’s survey of LGBT people in Scotland found that half had experienced depression in the past year, including seven in 10 trans people, and that more than half of trans people have thought of taking their own life in the past year. Let us just reflect on that. Half of trans people have thought of taking their own life in the past year. So when we think about and reflect on the debate that is currently ongoing, we must look at that statistic and take it very, very seriously."

lesbian, bi and trans women

this is such an insulting phrase, honestly.

High incidences of poor mental health. Some people could be putting the cart before the horse on this one

I'm a bisexual woman. I demand that you stop using my sex and my sexuality as a trojan horse to roll back my sex-based rights.

I demand that you stop using my sex and my sexuality as a human shield for males.

Half of trans people have thought of taking their own life in the past year.

Did they even mention the statistics for bisexual women? IIRC in that online survey that they endlessly distort that the trans suicidality statistics came from, bisexual females came out worse off than any other group. And in fact there is CONSISTENT evidence of bi women being at high risk of poor mental health, trauma, domestic violence... Any of this mentioned or was it just all trans all the time?

As usual - no one gives a shit about women - yes the actual meaning of the word.

Forgot the link; you can read the whole thing here, and watch it on Parliament TV.

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2020-03-10/debates/CD9E6213-BA77-469D-AABC-8308711DFF6B/LesbianBisexualAndTransWomen’SHealthInequalities

'Lesbian, Bisexual and Trans Women’s Health Inequalities'

That title doesn't make any sense. Lesbian women and bisexual women suffer the same health conditions as heterosexual women. All three groups suffer cervical cancer, endometriosis, ectopic pregnancy, vaginismus, for example. Any inequalities are in their access to the treatments and support that heterosexual women would get for the same conditions.

Transwomen do not and cannot suffer cervical cancer, endometriosis, ectopic pregnancy, vaginismus. In what way are they relevant in a discussion of how sexual orientation influences access to treatment for conditions that they cannot suffer?

What about transmen? They suffer the same conditions as L, B and H women, but are not included in this discussion? Surely that is an out-and-out display of transphobia?

If the discussion pertains to conditions that both sexes can suffer, and sexual orientation is relevant to people's access to treatment, why are gay men excluded when other males are included? Is this not homophobic, too?

I agree Jelly, it made no sense to me.

Of course there is inequality between those three... different bit, bobs and plumbing, and differences are inevitable. Also - if some people won’t acknowledge their bio sex then there will no some dreadful medical outcomes (such as the trans man who lost a baby because they insisted on being booked in as a male even through they must have had an inkling that they were pregnant).

I can tell you that the health inequalities my lesbian dd faces are different from the health inequalities a transwomen faces, because one of them is female, in a sexist society that does not value women's health, and one of them is male, in a society that favours men, and where men's health is the standard.

So why on earth they would be considered together is beyond me. Talk about women's health, and lesbian and bi women's health specifically, sure.

Talk about men's health, and transwomen's health specifically, also sure.

Lumping them together is nonsensical.

Plus women are now relegated to what is essentially mixed sex wards and ‘punished’ if they complain.

There are some health conditions that seem to affect lesbians and bi women more than hetero women, some cancers, for example. Life style factors such as having children later in life/not using risk lowering hormonal contraceptives are thought to explain it.

More studies are needed really, but if they are lumping males into the group as a catch-all LBT ‘Women’ category, it’s unlikely we’ll ever find out!

Adding the T to any discussion of lesbian, bisexual and lesbian womens health makes all the statistics related to these groups utterly meaningless. Many LGBT surveys invite transwomen to take part in their self identified sexuality. Do said statistics refer to biological women or males? Interesting that stats for transwomen remain constant and accurate though as 'cis' women cant identify into that category...

So transmen, natal females, are excluded specifically because of their trans identities? That is actual transphobia.

We could literally cut and paste some of the rhetoric that was used against lesbian, gay and bi people the ’70s and ’80s. That it is now being used against trans people is just utterly deplorable.

Yep. Good quote. Excellent to see a pair of SNP MP’s ‘getting it’.

Time for a bit more intersectionality and a bit less hatred, if progress for all is the aim.

‘Hatred’ is absolutely-fucking-irrelevant when it comes to medical statistics.

Lumping a bunch of people in who have absolutely zero chance of getting ovarian cancer means we’ll never get a proper picture as to why Lesbian and Bi women are disproportionately affected.

How you can crow about things that negatively impact on the health of marginalised women is beyond me, Robin. Women cannot progress beyond second class citizenship while men are the default in medical research and with the new patriciarchy pushing it’s way into our data sets.

If your intersectionalism isn’t limited to females, it is isn’t feminism.

Should you feel like informing yourself on what life is actually like for female people, as in, people who are biologically female and not just legally female, start here:

www.amazon.co.uk/Invisible-Women-Exposing-World-Designed/dp/1784741728?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Hannah Bardell MP (SNP)

(extract)
"On gender recognition legislation and why it is needed, I was struck by a contribution by Time for Inclusive Education, which created a podcast called TIE Talks, which is well worth a listen. Mridul Wadhwa, a trans woman of colour who lives and works in Scotland, recently spoke alongside Sharon Cowan, professor of feminist and queer legal studies from Edinburgh on the podcast. They spoke compellingly about the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the impact of the current system on the mental and physical health of trans people. I urge people to listen to it because it is hugely informative. I pay tribute to Jordan Daly and Liam Stevenson, who founded TIE, and the chair, Rhiannon Spear; they do remarkable work in Scotland for young people around LGBT education.

Mridul spoke about the patriarchal nature of the gender recognition panel and how a group of anonymous people decide other people’s future and fate in a way that echoes and has parallels, in her view, with the immigration system, which she has direct experience of. I was interested in hearing more about that and had a discussion with her about the differences and parallels of coming out as trans versus coming out as lesbian, gay or bi. She came out and transitioned in a different country, but she was clear that there are inherent similarities. I certainly remember people saying to me when I came out, “You can look forward to coming out every day.” I have to say, that is still pretty true nearly five years on, but what she told me was that as a trans person, there are so many hurdles to overcome. At times, she feels:

“how many people do I need to convince that I’m a man or a woman?”

Mridul Wadhwa who is male TS took a position in a women-only rape service presumably Wadhwa (who has said does not have a GRC) provided identification documents which stated female. The CRB/DBS service has special rules for people who are identified as transgender so that their sex is not disclosed.

This loophole is relevent to services where knowledge of workers' sex is part of the Safeguarding framework.

Telling interview with Wadhwa:
www.facebook.com/watch/?v=601908816953900
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3597742-Forth-Valley-Rape-Crisis-Centre

John Nicolson: We appear to be having an open season on trans people
Hannah Bardell: We could literally cut and paste some of the rhetoric that was used against lesbian, gay and bi people the ’70s and ’80s. That it is now being used against trans people is just utterly deplorable.

No, this isn't true. What lazy comments by these SNP politicians. If it’s ‘open season’ on anything, it’s on women, not on transpeople.

Hostile rhetoric is now used against women trying to defend their rights. And trans rights activists (TRAs) have developed an extraordinary new form of homophobic rhetoric, calling lesbians ‘vagina fetishists’ if they don’t wish to have sex with male-bodied transwomen.

In the 70s and 80s homosexuality was legal but with many restrictions. For example, in 1986 the Tory government passed the notorious Section 28, which ruled that councils "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality" or allow schools to show "the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship".

The rights gays and lesbians campaigned for were simple human rights, eg to marry. They were not trying to diminish anyone else's rights. They did not campaign against any other group in society.

Contrast this with the present day. Politicians compete to please trans people. Laws have been passed to forbid discrimination against them and to allow them privileges denied to anyone else, for example to change their birth certificates.

The very language has been changed to appease TRAs. Health information is aimed at 'pregnant people' or 'anyone with a cervix'. Employers insist that staff address transpeople by the pronouns that person chooses.

Society is so eager to please trans people that it lets them override laws protecting other groups, eg giving them access to women's toilets and changing rooms. The police record male offenders as female, if the male offender wishes this, and they can be housed in women's prisons.

Meanwhile, TRAs campaign for further privileges at the expense of women, eg to access all women's single-sex spaces. And they shower abuse on anyone asking, however mildly, for women's rights to be respected.

TRAs patrol the Internet to find comments in support of women's rights, and report these to police and/or the commenter's employer. So privileged are TRAs that the commenters are then taken to court, or have a 'hate incident' recorded by police against them, or lose their job.

Women trying to uphold the Equality Act, or to debate the loss of women's single-sex spaces, are routinely threatened with rape and murder. Feminist meetings routinely have their hall bookings cancelled, or are disrupted by crowds of aggressive TRAs who make participants run the gauntlet to enter the meeting.

Neither women nor the establishment are taking action against trans people. All the abuse is directed by TRAs against women and their male supporters.

Nicolson and Bardell are SNP colleagues of the heroic and outspoken Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry. They have no excuse for their ignorance.

John Nicolson is MP for Ochil and South Perthshire. A very rural community with its biggest employers being agriculture and tourism. Farmers absolutely understand biology and the coronavirus is bringing the tourist industry in Scotland onto its knees. Expect terrifying mass redundancies from next week. Glad to see Jon has his finger on the pulse 🤦‍♀️When did politicians become so astonishingly removed from what the electorate are concerned about?