Womxn

[DaisyintheCloud]

The local club for my hobby has a women’s night once a month. Or at least, it used to. Next month for the first time, it’s womxns night. Can anyone help me to understand the purpose of this word, in this context?

If you - as the organisers of this event seem to - feel that trans women should be included in women’s only events, then why the need for ‘womxn’? Surely you either think TWAW and should have access to all spaces/places for women, in which case, the use of ‘women’ is fine, or you don’t, in which case, that group of people aren’t invited as it’s for women? Where’s the need for ‘womxn’? On the flip side the club as a whole has made no mention of ‘mxn’ being welcome. No part of the website refers to mxn, and there is no equivalent ‘mxns’ night. Why does this only apply to women? My OH gets to continue to describe himself as a man but now, despite what I may think, I’m a womxn?

Is it some kind of middle ground school of thought I’ve not seen in real life before where TW are NOT W but are welcomed into a women’s space regardless?

Is it some kind of middle ground school of thought

No - it’s e-reader of women as adult human female.

Middle ground would stick to facts and reality.this is capitulation.

Have a trans night, have a human night and have a womAns night

Oops - should read erasure not e-reader - obvs

I think it is "compelled" speech and has no place in a society where there is supposed to be freedom of speech.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8068879/Leicester-University-students-union-faces-backlash-rebranding-International-Womens-Day.html

Email and say how much you miss women's night.

It is a word created by men in order to try to achieve a higher score in Scrabble by nefarious means.

(Can’t take credit for that idea, unfortunately)

Sometimes, you just have to laugh at the absurdity of this.

@picklemewalnuts I’m really reluctant to do this for fear it singles me out as ‘the transphobe’. Perhaps that makes me very cowardly. The very fact of the name change, of a group run by women for women, makes me feel they wouldn’t be receptive at all to such an email.

I am all for trans people having rights and being respected and protected. I will HAPPILY call a trans women she or her or whatever name they choose to go by in conversation with them or about them. I consider myself liberal and pro others rights and it actually pains me to do something which would cause me to be viewed by others as anything phobic. I suppose in staying silent because of that I am part of the problem.

Its apparently more inclusive

It includes transwomen and women of colour.

Yes yet again racist cos women of colour arent included by the word woman apparently and we all know that lesbians and WOC confuse the definition of women so much that letting men have it is the most logical step...

Anyway its nonsense and women doesnt need to he re defined to include men. And all other kids of actual women are women obviously.

I just find myself for the first time unable to stand in solidarity with a minority group because for the first time (that I’m aware of) that group dont just seem to want equality - which would be right- but actually as a PP has said, to erase me and my rights.

@SarahTancredi I did not know that it is supposed to include WOC. That’s hugely offensive! Why are women choosing this term?? What are they gaining from it?!

I honestly dont think they realise the racism and homophobia behind it.

Like they dont realise that women who have had mastectomies and/or hysterectomies are still women....

Can you ask why it's being changed to womxn? You could start out naive, and naively express concern about what the change signifies. So if they say 'It's so gay and non binary people feel included', answer 'oh lovely but I thought woman includes all women'. Or doesn't 'womxn' now exclude ordinary 'women'?

I'd struggle to respond if they said 'to include trans women', because basically that would be 'oh, men then.'

it's a dreadful term.

Could we make wombn catch on? It’s the opposite of womxn.

Do you know the individual who decided to do this? I suggest you get to know her. She might not have thought about it much at all.

Even if she has drunk all the koolaid you can still point out to her that using womxn shows she does not really believe transwomen are women and so she is being transphobic. Better put it back to women.

I thought the phrase was trans women are women - not Wodnfjasjasm or whatever the spelling is supposed to be.

*Can you ask why it's being changed to womxn? You could start out naive, and naively express concern about what the change signifies. So if they say 'It's so gay and non binary people feel included', answer 'oh lovely but I thought woman includes all women'. Or doesn't 'womxn' now exclude ordinary 'women'?

I'd struggle to respond if they said 'to include trans women', because basically that would be 'oh, men then*

I feel it simply must be the latter. I am bisexual, happen to be in a long term relationship w a man at present. My last relationship was same sex. If the answer came back that it was so as to include gay (or bi) people I would find it utterly outrageous. My sexuality has sod all to do with being a woman or not. I am a woman, who happens to be bi. I would expect a woman, who happens to be gay, to feel the same. Straight is not a prerequisite for being a woman. (I’m not suggesting this is what you’re saying, by the way. Just explaining why I would find that particular answer so utterly unacceptable and honestly, homophobic).

As for the change being necessary to include non binary people... My understanding is that those who are non binary do not identify as female (or male). Why would those people have any interest in what is, in reality, a women’s night. Why would they want lumped in with the women, I mean, when that’s not how they perceive themselves?

So, for the reasons above to me it seems obvious that when they say all womxn, they mean, trans women. I might ask, despite the fact that like you, that answer will probably piss me off!

See, I'd like them to spell that out! I don't want them to hide behind a bland 'being inclusive' which as you point out 'woman' already is.

@TorkTorkBam

Even if she has drunk all the koolaid you can still point out to her that using womxn shows she does not really believe transwomen are women and so she is being transphobic. Better put it back to women

^i like this! Potential drawback that I may encourage a ‘woke-off’? Where it actually outright becomes TWAW and can share our changing facilities etc whilst at the night?

See, I'd like them to spell that out! but they can’t spell...

‘wxMEN’ is how that word should be spelled.

It denotes an activity, event or service that was once aimed at women but the men objected and the organisers capitulated.

Point out that their update fails to include women who speak English as a second language and women with SEN. Groups that have far greater numbers than NB femmes and Transwomen.

@DuLANG just double checked and I see they have used womxn instead of wxmen. I assume that’s a typo on their part. Another small reason we should perhaps all stick with accepted dictionary definitions of words...!

Do you mean in the sense that it is harder to understand who it is aimed at, as it is not a word generally used in everyday English? There is a large English as a second language contingent who use this particular venue. It’s in a big city with a large student population.

No, the way they spelled it is the way they intended it. I just messed about with it to make sure it still includes the MEN part, because that’s the reason for the spelling change, to make the word ‘women’ into something that indicates transwo men are welcome.

Do you mean in the sense that it is harder to understand who it is aimed at, as it is not a word generally used in everyday English?

Exactly that! So it’s not actually more inclusive, because it makes it less accessible to a larger proportion of people.