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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Berlin to compensate children knowingly placed with paedophiles

48 replies

LeftHandDown · 04/03/2020 13:07

Just come across this in The Times stating that authorities in Berlin knowingly placed foster children with paedophiles between 1969-2003, as 'unruly' and 'feeble-minded' children would benefit from sexual attraction.

I am aware of the in roads PIE made in the UK and evidence of child sex abuse rings have been ignored in this country, but am horrified that the Berlin authorities persisted in knowingly placing children with rapists for over 30 years and zero fucks were given about the children.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/berlin-to-compensate-victims-of-paedophile-foster-scheme-mnw5bsx35

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PreseaCombatir · 04/03/2020 20:11

Could have been like today. People afraid to say no to a charismatic cult for fear of being called a bigot or losing their job or their influence

It’s always the same. Swept under the rug for thirty odd years. When it comes out in the open, insist ‘lessons will be learned’.
Rinse and repeat.

I feel physically sick reading this. Those poor children (well, adults now)
There’s not enough money in the world

RiotAndAlarum · 04/03/2020 20:13

Utterly horrifying. How can something like this happen?

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 04/03/2020 20:31

Why do men do this? What's fucking wrong with them? How could you bring yourself to harm a child like that? It has to have a biological basis somewhere, this can't all be down to learned behaviours and social conditioning. And yes, I know women can be paedophiles to, but it's orders of magnitude less likely, and I have never ever seen a female paedophile standing as a fucking activist for it. Its always men, gaining power, wielding inexplicable amounts of influence, doing and promoting the most sickening evil things. Why?!

Binterested · 04/03/2020 20:40

I agree. I don’t think male criminality and sexual crimes can all be socially determined. I’m afraid there’s an innate element in there too.

Smartanimal · 04/03/2020 21:29

Not only should these victims be financially compensated but everybody who assisted to this sickening thing should be prosecuted and jailed. Everybody who had knowledge about it and signed papers.
In my opinion the death penalty should be reinstallated for paedophiles.

ahumanfemale · 04/03/2020 21:52

It’s always the same. Swept under the rug for thirty odd years. When it comes out in the open, insist ‘lessons will be learned’.
Rinse and repeat.

Agree. It's utterly sickening.

RepulsiveCilla · 04/03/2020 21:59

Unbelievably horrific.

OvaHere · 04/03/2020 22:07

This is horrific. I struggle to comprehend this went on so long right up to 2003.

As someone above said it's just rinse and repeat with this stuff.

LeftHandDown · 04/03/2020 22:22

I cannot get my head round the fact that somebody took a decision that placed boys who already had issues, with paedophiles. I presume as it was foster care there would have been assessments, yet nobody picked up on the fact they weren't going to school, or changed behaviour, bruises etc, or is it because they were 'troubled' and/or 'feeble minded' prior to placment it was easy to disregard/write off any negative behaviour as being the fault of the child?

It feels as though troubled kids were thrown into the lions den, 'here, have these and leave other, more worthy kids alone'. Which we see time and.time again.

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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 04/03/2020 23:10

How do you create a share token? I've got a subscription and will do it if I can.

squirrelybiscuits · 05/03/2020 01:48

Harrowing. Those poor boys. :(

Kentler himself adopted three boys and fostered another.

Apparently a feminist activist punched Kentler in the face in 1993. It's a heartwarming image, but a fleeting one --- that twisted bastard got away with everything. A respected man, an authority even. Glowing obits upon his death.
It's sickening.

Reading a bit of Kentler's writing (eurgh), I realise I've read it before, some years ago, quoted on the website of another influential 'paedophile rights activist'. The paedophile's website, where he quoted Kentler, was one click from his Wiki page. One click from there was a page of reams and reams of graphic banners ads for footage of child sexual abuse --- every fetish catered for.

The police couldn't take the site down, because it was hosted in Germany. Angry

Floisme · 05/03/2020 08:32

Bumping. Distressing as it is, this story needs sunlight and yes, I can absolutely understand how it happened. Those poor children.

MoltenLasagne · 05/03/2020 08:39

The police couldn't take the site down, because it was hosted in Germany

Is paedophilia not criminalised in Germany? I cannot understand how people could KNOW that there are paedophiles raping children and rather than arresting them, they actively support them by supplying further children. I just can't wrap my head around how anyone can come to that conclusion without being a paedophile themselves. Was the whole of Berlin regional government infiltrated to that extent?

LeftHandDown · 05/03/2020 10:14

Free Democratic Parties involvement in pushing paedophilia.
Using Germans version of Section 28 to progress right to sex with children.

Politicians obviously bought the narrative saying 'these boys are so damaged and traumatised, paedophiles are the only people who can love them'.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/international/germany/documents-reveal-links-between-german-fdp-and-pedophilia-activists-a-920092-amp.html

Government failing to disclose information about the number of children involved!

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/germany-s-secret-paedophilia-experiment-1.2897942?mode=amp
allthatsinteresting.com/helmut-kentler-pedophilia-experiment

I'm probably late in my realisation, but I wasn't aware of the historical relevance of 'Outsiders' as a term of reference for deviant acts, or what is considered deviant at that point in history. Kentler appears to have been an advocate of 'No outsiders'.

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NotAGirl · 05/03/2020 12:22

And nothing changes, there were probably more than that one woman protesting. Her actions were only recorded bacause she punched him.

Time and time again the women trying to protect children are demonised and ignored.

LouHotel · 05/03/2020 14:09

I remember thinking that it was so shocking that the Magdalen laundries didnt close to 1990 but that now feels an age away.

This is no less shocking to me than the infiltration of charities like mermaids into the public realm and I think in 20 years there will be people on forums going 'how was it allowed to happen to kids'

This is abhorrent but the vast majority of the public gives no thought to children in care especially those from difficult backgrounds - we expect the state to help and so if the state is infiltrated it's not surprising this can happen, remember at the same time this was happening in Germany their were UK children's homes that had given Jimmy saville a key!

I hope they fight for everything they want and that there is public rage in Germany.

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 05/03/2020 16:48

Oh my, where else have we seen the phrase "it's just like section 28" used to shut down criticism regarding safeguarding?

The needle returns to the start of the song, and we all sing along like before.

MoleSmokes · 08/03/2020 02:04

LeftHandDown said "Using Germans version of Section 28 to progress right to sex with children."

Section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988 says the opposite of what you seem to think it says:

"28 Prohibition on promoting homosexuality by teaching or by publishing material."

(1)The following section shall be inserted after section 2 of the [1986 c. 10.] Local Government Act 1986 (prohibition of political publicity)—

2A Prohibition on promoting homosexuality by teaching or by publishing material

(1)A local authority shall not—

(a)intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality;

(b)promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship.

(2)Nothing in subsection (1) above shall be taken to prohibit the doing of anything for the purpose of treating or preventing the spread of disease.

(3)In any proceedings in connection with the application of this section a court shall draw such inferences as to the intention of the local authority as may reasonably be drawn from the evidence before it.

(4)In subsection (1)(b) above “maintained school” means,—

(a)in England and Wales, a county school, voluntary school, nursery school or special school, within the meaning of the Education Act 1944; and

(b)in Scotland, a public school, nursery school or special school, within the meaning of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980.”

(2)This section shall come into force at the end of the period of two months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/9/section/28/enacted

What is more relevant is that the 2003 debate in the Lords on the repeal of Section 28 shows there was concern about sex education generally. Since Section 28 dealt only with "promoting homosexuality" there would have been no point in retaining it in order to deal with the wider issues.

These extracts from Hansard show that Section 28 did nothing to stop grossly inappropriate materials and activities being used with children as long ago as 2003.

The introduction by Lord Rooker contains this statement:

Part 8 also deals with what is known as Section 28. During consideration of the Bill in another place, an amendment was made to repeal Section 2A of the Local Government Act 1986, more commonly known as Section 28 because the provision was implemented by Section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988. Those noble Lords who have done their homework will be aware of this, but I have to warn the House that I do not go along with the folklore related to the matter. I say that because I was present on the night that the section was put into the 1988 Local Government Bill. So I know exactly what was said, what was intended and who voted for what, and I have recently refreshed my memory.

Section 28 is a deeply confusing piece of legislation; indeed, it is more confusing today even than it was in 1988. Its aim, of course, is to prohibit the promotion of homosexuality by local authorities. The Government have made their position on Section 28 abundantly clear. It is an unnecessary piece of legislation. However, concerns remain, and I hope that during the course of our deliberations I shall be able to address them. Concerns have been expressed that repeal could somehow have an effect on what is taught to schoolchildren. One point needs to be made crystal clear to the House: the repeal of Section 28 will have no effect whatever on what is taught in schools. I shall repeat that: the repeal of Section 28 will have no effect whatever on what is taught in schools. Let there be no doubt that the Government's position is that children in schools should be protected from inappropriate materials and receive sex and relationships education that recognises the importance of marriage and stable relationships.

Since Section 28 was last debated in your Lordships' House, the Learning and Skills Act 2000 has been passed which gives effect to the Government's policies and establishes a very robust framework for sex and relationships education. In particular, local authorities have no role in determining what is taught in schools. Section 28 plays no part in that framework. The matter is governed by the Education Act 1996 as amended in 2000, and therefore the repeal of Section 28 would not alter the framework in any way.

Lord Rooker's speech in full:

api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/2003/apr/03/local-government-bill#S5LV0646P0_20030403_HOL_586

In her reply, note that Baroness Blatch reports, "Parents are also concerned about inappropriate materials that cover heterosexuality as well as homosexuality. "

Nearly 20 years ago, Hansard records Baroness Blatch reporting very similar concerns as are being expressed by parents today - not so much about "promotion of homosexuality" but about age-inappropriate sexualised materials and activities.

MoleSmokes · 08/03/2020 02:14

Extract from Baroness Blatch's reply:

(my bolding)

The third area of regulation is sex education. If politics and religion are controversial areas of the curriculum, so too is sex education. In 1986 Parliament amended the law to require that sex education was given in such a way as to have due regard to moral considerations and the value of family life. When I was an education Minister, that safeguard was not sufficient to assuage parental concerns. In 1993 I was personally involved in making sex education a discrete subject and delegating responsibility for the content of the subject to the governing bodies of schools. For the first time parents were given a statutory right for their children not to receive sex education.

Subsequently I was involved in drawing up sex education guidance from the department, which was in place until it was revised in 2000 following further amendments to the law agreed by your Lordships. Those government amendments required that schools have regard to the new guidance issued by the Secretary of State.

Many parents are concerned about the use of inappropriate materials in schools, which is why Parliament has regulated sex education. Those who support Clause 121 of the Bill and seek the repeal of Section 28 have failed adequately to grasp that point. They have failed to accept that sexuality—just like politics or religion—is a controversial area where parents have strong concerns that their children be protected .

Opinion polls show that the vast majority of parents do not want homosexuality promoted in schools. In the referendum funded by Brian Souter, 1 million Scots voted to keep Section 28—86.8 per cent of those who voted. A poll carried out in the Prime Minister's own constituency of Sedgefield in 2000 found that 71 per cent of people wanted Section 28 retained.

Parents are also concerned about inappropriate materials that cover heterosexuality as well as homosexuality. Section 28 was introduced for a reason. Some local authorities were actively promoting homosexuality in schools. Three years ago my noble friend the late Lady Young held an exhibition of inappropriate materials in your Lordships' House. Section 28 acts as a restraint for the majority of local authorities. If Section 28 is repealed and nothing is put in its place, what happens in a small number of local authorities could become the norm.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, referred to Section 28 preventing expenditure by local authorities on gay men. That is not true. Local authorities do have a great influence on what is taught in schools. At the end of the day, they are the employers. They employ teachers and, like any employer, they are ultimately responsible for the conduct of their employees. In repealing Section 28, the Government are asking us to believe that a law that binds an employer has no influence at all over employees. That cannot be true, yet it is being claimed.

The Minister in another place stated: Local authorities have no say over what sex and relationship education is taught in schools".—[Official Report, Commons, 10/3/03; col. 85.] If only it were true that local authorities have no say or influence over sex education in schools. The Minister seems to be referring to the fact that specific duties on local education authorities with regard to sex education were removed in 2000. This followed a government amendment to the learning and skills Bill. Certain duties may have been removed but the important point is that LEAs still have a general supervisory role over schools. Legislation does not prohibit them from publishing and recommending sex education materials or from employing advisory staff.

The Government expect LEAs to exercise this supervisory role with respect to sex education. That is clear from Section 351(6) of the Education Act 1996. That same section requires that whenever LEAs exercise these functions they "must have regard" to government guidance on sex education. But one can "have regard to" guidance without actually following it. One can also claim to be following the guidance when one is not. As the Minister knows, the only challenge is on procedural grounds and not on what the schools actually do.

That is exactly what has happened. Some local authorities are pushing highly unsuitable sex education materials into our schools and they are praying in aid government's guidance. I shall give an example of what is happening in one area; namely, Brighton. Brighton and Hove Council and East Sussex County Council have a joint personal, social and health education advisory team. These PSHE advisors—eight part-timers in total—are using their powers to influence sex education to the full.

In the year 2000 the council's advisory team published its own handbook for teachers. The council claims that the handbook is in accordance with government guidance. So what does the handbook say? It "strongly recommends" that schools buy a particular "essential" resource pack entitled, Taking Sex Seriously. A more unsuitable resource it is difficult to imagine. One lesson suggests that pupils are asked to buy condoms for homework. Another lesson has the aim of getting pupils to think about the full range of sexual activities. Teachers are told to, give a few examples to get the group thinking along the right lines". The suggested examples include dressing up, tying up, sadism and/or masochism, partner swapping, anal intercourse or multiple partner at one time. Those are just the milder examples. Decency prevents me from reading out the rest.

Brighton and Hove also fund a group called Gay & Lesbian Arts and Media—or GLAM for short. With council funding this group published a booklet which states that: School assemblies need to reflect lesbian, gay and bisexual anniversaries like Stonewall as well as birthdays of famous lesbians, gay and bisexual people. That same booklet tells teachers that, having regard to [Government guidance] does not mean 'adhere to"'. Of course, in law, that is absolutely true.

The Government place great faith in their guidance which was issued in 2000 to allay concerns about the repeal of Section 28. Having read the guidance, there is much which is ambiguous and unclear.

David Blunkett was Secretary of State at the time of the last debate on Section 28. There was particular concern around that time about a resource entitled, Beyond A Phase, produced by Avon Health Promotion Service, an NHS body. In January 2000, this hit the headlines. The Sunday Times carried a full-page spread about this teachers' pack and video and widespread coverage followed, including ITV's "Tonight with Trevor McDonald".

Of particular concern was the advice from one contributor — Karl — to the video, that children should, Try experimenting with other boys and girls and see who you feel most comfortable with". David Blunkett said on the BBC that this particular resource was inappropriate for schools. He proposed tightening up the law to address the issue of health authority materials. Yet, over two years after his guidance, Beyond A Phase has been recommended by at least three local authorities. They are Brighton and Hove—no surprise—East Sussex and Gloucestershire.

This resource pack includes an infamous series of "role plays" for pupils to act out. The roles include a married man who was "done" for cottaging, an out lesbian mother, a gay teenager, a married woman who had a "one night stand" with another woman, a bisexual granny, a sado-masochistic heterosexual woman, and a transvestite cabaret artist. Your Lordships, this is for children.

In being all things to all men, the guidance failed to stop local authorities peddling inappropriate materials. The guidance has not stopped the use of Beyond A Phase. It has not stopped Brighton and Hove and East Sussex strongly recommending appalling materials. On the contrary, those authorities say that their advice to teachers complies with the guidance.

Schools are not the only place where local authorities can influence what young people are being taught about sex. There are council-funded youth groups all over the country which have sessional youth workers employed by the local authority. If Section 28 is repealed, this work will be unregulated. The Minister in another place referred to guidance issued by the National Youth Agency. But, again, like Brighton and Hove Council, this guidance also recommends the appalling Taking Sex Seriously pack, which I quoted from a moment ago.

Section 28 has proved to have a very positive influence to curb the worst excesses of council-funded youth groups. It is there for parents to use should they have a grievance about sex education. In 2000 a Glasgow nurse took Glasgow City Council to court under Section 28. She sought judicial review of their decision to fund a youth group, attended by children as young as 12, where a highly pornographic booklet entitled Gay Sex Now was being used. The legal action succeeded in having the booklet withdrawn from circulation. Section 28, in that case, worked. It blocked the distribution of homosexual pornography.

I am particularly concerned that if Section 28 is repealed, there will be nothing to protect young people. Indeed the promotion of "well-being" powers contained in the Local Government Act 2000 seems to give carte blanche to local authorities to spend money on anything that they judge will promote well-being, however that is defined. This will almost certainly include more youth groups.

The repeal of Section 28 is all the more worrying because of the Government's proposals for the Sexual Offences Bill. The Government have decided to give a blanket exemption from facilitating child sex offences for those who claim to be giving sex education. This exemption is in the form of an amendment to Clause 15 of the Sexual Offences Bill currently before your Lordships' House.

Under the amendment a person who gives sex education will, for example, be able to facilitate the showing of pornographic videos to a child or facilitate the commission of sexual acts in front of a child. All this is possible as long as the person who gives sex education says that this was not his intended outcome. That is a perfect defence for someone wishing to corrupt young minds.

A special exemption from the criminal law has never been necessary before. Now it will be. I shudder to think what sort of sex education is envisaged which requires exemption from facilitating a child sex offence.

The noble Lord, Lord Alli, made a comment to which I take offence. I do not just claim to be concerned about protection for children; I do care about the protection of children. The repeal of Section 28 cannot be swapped for government guidance.

If protection for young people cannot be put in statute to underpin guidance, Clause 28 should be reinstated. To guard against the worst excesses of those who take advantage of young people by peddling inappropriate sex education, parents, and especially children, need the protection of the law.

Baroness Blatch's reply in full:

api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/2003/apr/03/local-government-bill#S5LV0646P0_20030403_HOL_602

InionEile · 08/03/2020 05:18

Over and over again we see examples of male adults’ sexual demands and ‘identities’ being prioritized over the safety and well-being of women and children. This is yet another example of it. Rochdale was another. Jimmy Savile another.

As for that statement on children who are ‘unruly’ and ‘feeble-minded’ being dispensable - that’s straight out of the Nazi handbook. I wonder what Helmut Kentler’s real background was...

NotTerfNorCis · 08/03/2020 17:20

Could have been like today. People afraid to say no to a charismatic cult for fear of being called a bigot or losing their job or their influence

This is why 'no debate' is so dangerous and needs to be opposed - even if we don't like someone's ideas. 'First they came for the communists' etc.

LeftHandDown · 08/03/2020 18:57

Thanks for that info Molesmokes. I'll have a closer look tomorrow and also have a look to see what out county teaches

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Reginabambina · 08/03/2020 19:11

Fucking hell.

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