Times 1 Mar 2020 Rod Liddle Sports Section Women’s sport must be kept for athletes who are born as women

[AnotherNightWatering]

Spotted by my DH, as I don't read the Sports section. I therefore feel this will get through to a different set of readers from Janice's columns.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/womens-sport-must-be-kept-for-athletes-who-are-born-as-women-and-no-one-should-ever-be-afraid-to-say-so-vggk3cwlb

PS I still can't get the share token to work on this computer - sorry.

I can't get the sharetoken link from the app on my iPad either so it's probably a fault at the Times end.

Gosh.... OT but scrolling through this section is overwhelmingly mens football and other men's sports. I may have missed something but among the many photos the only ones of women are a couple of footballers, and one on a piece about a sex abuse scandal.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d4ebf4c2-5b1d-11ea-b224-188b67cae9b1?shareToken=51912da5de6e3d793b4685b62c5664bb

Overwhelmingly sensible comments.

And Rod self-IDing as a woman in the comments

Great article. Thank you for the link TimeLady

The transgender lobby argue that none of this should be a cause for worry, because we’re all different, aren’t we? Um, well yes, up to a point, but the science is pretty clear on the physical differences between men and women. They also argue that this is a piffling issue, given that fewer than 1 per cent of the population are transgendered. But in a sense, that’s rather the problem: that fewer than 1 per cent is punching very strongly above its weight in women’s sports. The transgendered cyclist Rachel McKinnon, now known as Veronica Ivy (one begins to lose track, I know), is the UCI Masters World Track Racing champion. The British cricketer Maxine Blythin (who, it should be said, has naturally low testosterone levels for a man) once had a batting average of 15, when playing against men. Since competing against women, that average has shot up to 124. Transgendered athletes are winning track-and-field titles in Canada and the US, including the extremely fast Andraya Yearwood. This issue will grow rather than recede

Surprised that Rod Liddell should speak up for women. This issue is creating some strange bedfellows.

Still, he’s right and I am glad the topic is being covered.

"This issue is creating some strange bedfellows."

This will be used as a guilt by association fallacy by some people-- See, you have those terrrible bigoted conservatives agreeing with you, so what does that tell you!?

Of course it tells you very little at all. You can't refute viewpoints by pointing to "bad people" that also hold them.

The problem with sports is that it isn't just about woke madness. It's good old-fashioned sexism. Because women's sports are seen as inferior, the rule makers didn't think twice about opening women's categories to anyone who fancies having a go provided that their testosterone level is below that of typical male.
The IOC rules have been influenced by a person who believes that getting emotional while watching Disney films is a sign of womanhood (Joanna Harper in that documentary with Martina Navratilova).
Eric Vilain, another IOC consultant, has said that if women don't accept the current approach, the alternative is everyone competing according to gender identity without any rules.
It was never about fairness, it wasn't a mistake, they knew exactly what they were doing.

Would we let people "self identify" into children's sports? A 25 year old can compete against 12 years old kids because they identify as that age?

Yes you may have an advantage, but I mean, there are all kinds of biological advantages in sports aren't there? Why focus on the age based advantages to exclude people from participating?

"Because women's sports are seen as inferior"

They are indeed inferior in a way; that's precisely why they need protecting from having biological males competing that shouldn't be in that class.

Good on Rod Liddle.

My contempt for high profile sports personalities who aren't speaking up for women (looking at you, you coward, Lineker) is boundless.

"They also argue that this is a piffling issue, given that fewer than 1 per cent of the population are transgendered."

Even if we never see that many trans women in any given era at elite level sport, there are still victims here. There are victims at amateur level if women miss out on podium places. There are victims if women miss out on sports scholarships. And there could be literal victims in combat sports or something like rugby.

So trans women don't need to dominate all elite sport, for it to be unfair.

Their claimed percentages don't really matter due to the significant impact a tiny number can have. It would only take 3 self declared transwomen in every sport to result in an Olympics with a possibility of no female medallists.

There are 300 odd events, do we really think that between the ultra-competitive countries of the world they couldn't rustle up under 1,000 male athletes willing to claim they've always had an affinity with offensive female stereotypes?

They are indeed inferior in a way; that's precisely why they need protecting from having biological males competing that shouldn't be in that class.

Of course. I meant that they are seen as inferior in value. Men's sports is the default, the 'other' category is for women and mediocre males.

Womens Sport is quantatively but not qualatively inferior.

Watching the World T20 at the moment. The women can't hit the ball so far and so they have to find the gaps and run their runs. Womens Rugby is a handling game where the ball comes out of the rucks and mauls much quicker. Netball is a game of skill and grace, the way they leap forwards and land on the spot. NBA by comparison is an oversized bullying thugshow.