Mr/Ms/Mrs etc

[TableNiner]

I’m getting increasingly irritated at needing to specify a prefix when completing forms etc. I see some companies have added a whole new range of options like Mx but can anyone explain why a prefix is needed at all? It’s the equivalent of asking for your gender to me, which is treated with much more caution

Well, I think a lot of people like titles like that, Mr, Ms, Dr, etc. And unless they ask it's not always clear which is appropriate.

There's no 'need' for titles, they're just our societal convention. Earned titles can usually be substituted for by initials after the name, if apt (Dame by DBE, Dr by PhD etc)

Adding letters works for written things. Not so much when someone calls you on the phone or adresses you at the dentist's office or something. Some people don't really like being called by their first name in those situations, and last name with no title also sounds off, like the army.

Titles allows for different levels of formality and intimacy.

To some, it's more respectful than using first names terms which implies familiarity or overfamiliarity.

Yes, that's why they're used but it's just societal convention in our culture (not everywhere), and one which does seem to be declining in favour of Firstname Surname.

“Miss or Mrs?”

Er, neither!

I don’t especially like Ms but it’s the best of a bad lot. I’d rather not have a title either. My name should be enough.

Particularly annoyed at BA last weekend allowing ‘Mr’ for little boys but not ‘Ms’ for little girls. Only Miss for them.

Either it’s Master and Miss, or Mr and Ms/Miss/Mrs

Yes, that's why they're used but it's just societal convention in our culture (not everywhere), and one which does seem to be declining in favour of Firstname Surname.

I don't see that as very equivalent, in English, though in other languages it may well differ.

But if I am waiting to talk to some specialist I have been referred to, he or she might refer to me as Sarah Smith the first time, but after that is it Sarah, or Smith, or Sarah Smith every time? I can tell you that I really don't want some doctor I haven't met before using my first name, I'd much rather have some clarity about the nature of the relationship.

Many people are happy to use first name at all times, but I do think it's useful to have a less intimate form that doesn't sound terribly awkward to use. I don't particularly want my students to call me by my first name for example, and I know many women teachers in particular, and lecturers who feel that they are treated with less respect in situations where that is what is expected.

I don't really think the odd person being annoyed by filling out a form is a very good reason to get rid of a functional bit of language.

I find it quite annoying and redundant in most cases, not because of sex/gender but because of marital status. Men are always Mr regardless of age or marital status. It's women that have to be classed as Miss or Mrs, which has always irritated me. I use Ms at all times, yet most people over the phone hear it as Miss and record it that way.
How on earth is Mx meant to be pronounced?

Titles seem fine for written or spoken communication in formal settings - like some educational or professional correspondence, banking, some health services and so on.

But I don't see the point of it in many other areas. The vast majority of companies and services put zero thought into the information asked on forms and how that information is used or if it's necessary.
I've entered my title on so many pointless forms, and when they send out correspondence, there's no title, only my first and last name. So what was the point of asking it in the first place?!

Fortunately, online forms increasingly have the title field as optional instead of mandatory, so I avoid using it when possible, but it's still available for people who prefer to enter their title. Seems like a fair compromise.

I think first and last name without any title seems fine for most settings. I tend to lean towards a more egalitarian approach in terms of how I treat people, and I don't feel any sense of deference or respect for someone merely because they have one or more titles than me.

Master still exists and is often used for boys. The problem is that it also abbreviates to “Mr” and I think it is for that reason people seem to have forgotten it.

I completed an online form with only the option to choose from Mr or Ms. Was quite refreshing to not have to declare my marital status.

I’m more annoyed that every form asks for my gender tbh.

I’m very much in favour of titles. As a (now retired) doctor for 36 years, I never presumed to use patients’ first names unless they expressly asked me to.
First names are for the use of close associates- friends and families. It’s very disrespectful to use them for people you’ve only just met, as if they’re children.
If you don’t know their title, you’d have to just bark their surname, which sounds like a school register!
I used Mr and Ms as my defaults if I don’t know, and always apologised and corrected when a patient told me it’s actually Prof, Sir, Rev or whatever.
In reverse, it irritates me greatly if people use my first name without permission. The younger generation seem to be particularly prone to this, as they’re more informal among themselves, but it makes me cringe to see a young nurse address an elderly professor as “Ronnie”, when he’s already feeling vulnerable and facing cancer surgery, for example!

I’ve been Ms since I’ve ever needed to state it. I’m old now. Never been a problem.

And unless they ask it's not always clear which is appropriate.

The solution is right there. Instead of title, organisations such as healthcare where you may be referred to in person can have a box 'What do you prefer to be called'.

This is surely good practice anyway. When my DM was having heart surgery, each patient had a board over their bed with their name on it. She (a former teacher) was Mrs Dragon but there were others who preferred a forename, sometimes a diminutive thereof. On the other hand, MIL was in a rehab unit after a stroke didn't have this type of system and they persistently used her forename - despite us telling them she'd always used her middle name, because she disliked her first name.

I agree that we should see an end to gendered titles.

I also think it would be odd if I were jane or john Smith, for a caller to just say, oh hello Smith, we're calling about your car service Smith. Or a complete unknown student saying hi Jane, or a cold caller using my first name, which they do as a way of being over familiar/coercive sales tactic.

Sir, and madam, are equally weird.

Also how do you correspond with someone unknown and not be over familiar.... by saying Dear Smith? Or be over familiar and say Dear Jane.

I have written in reply at times using Dear Jane Smith, where a title is not shown, as a best guess at being polite and accurate and not over familiar.

Or maybe we should say Dear J Smith?

Or just dispense wih spoken titles and refer to people by their initial letter and surname, Am I speaking to J Smith

I don't care whether I'm called Ms Miss or Mrs, just say as long as you use a female title, as I'm female, whether I'm married is irrelevant anyway, right?

I have just realised that I do degender often, when preparing things like biopics, cv's, and generalised stuff also, I use the J Smith approach, to nullify any gender bias.

I de-title people! I refuse to send a birthday card to a friend I've known since we were all unmarried to "Mrs Hisname", so I write eg "Laura" on the front of the envelope. no one's ever commented on it, but it makes me feel better. My friendship to her has nothing to do with him and I'll be dammed if I have to change the way I identify her.

I'd prefer it if culture changed so using people's first names was never considered overfamiliar. That would help a lot. It doesn't need to be seen that way.

I'm very sad when asked my title, which happens a lot in the bureaucracy around divorce. I felt I should start using Ms but I desperately didn't want to get divorced, I loved being married to xh, so it was painful to have to think about each time.

Of course xh never had to deal with that.

I also got "are you going to stop using his name?" (as in surname) It's my bastard name. After 20 years and having built a profession under that name It really made me see how women are still defined my their relationship to/approval from a man.

Final thought, does anyone know the convention for female surgeons? Is there a standard equivalent to Mr that they use, or does it vary widely by individual?

Anything additional to a name that isn't a name - prefix, middle initial - used to be very handy when tracing the origins of unsolicited mail.

What does that mean @SerendipityJane

summer agree. Also, on official forms you have to continually state your status, which because theres a 'divorced' status I assume would preclude you from declaring yourself 'single', but forever 'divorced' surely thats a nonsense!?

I think it's an equality issue. I am perfectly happy for my first name to be used in circumstances where everybody's first name is used. I will not tolerate my first name being used when another person expects me to adress them with a title or introduces themself with a title. That is just downright rude.

I am married and I prefer Mrs to Ms. I think all adult women, however, shoukd be addressed the same rather like Frau in Germany.

Anybody who called me Roses would recive the sharp end of my tongue. It very rude in the UKUK.