Metro story about male breast cancer survivor 'refused access to support group'

[ArranUpsideDown]

You can see the Twitter reaction from a self-declared SJW here:

twitter.com/MBCoalition/status/1232946331976716293

Actual Metro story reveals it's about a FB group:

metro.co.uk/2020/02/24/dad-breast-cancer-rejected-support-groups-man-12291570/?ito=article.amp.share.top.twitter

I'm sure the outraged tweeter doesn't feel he's over-reading the situation at all. Why is it so easy and so damning to accuse women of insensitivity and so unthinkable that women shouldn't have to tend to a different set of needs and emotions? This level-headed chap thinks it appropriate to call those women who raise polite objections TERFS and goes further: That's just one reason why your hostile reaction is so cruel it verges on psychopathic.

Natyo, then it's not a relevant topic for this board, is it? First exactly the same reasons already discussed. As it is, the OP is talking about the delightful MRA using it as an excuse to berate women for daring not to centre men in everything. So yeah, still standing by every point made here.

Why did he try to join the group in the first place?

Did he not think and try and find a male group in the first place?

Don't get why he is acting in this way and expected to be included full stop.

"You have to put men's feelings above your own, even if you might be dying" is the message I take away from all of this. To which I say, not for the first time, no parasan. I'm done with trying to reason with men like that.

The replies under:

twitter.com/MBCoalition/status/1232946331976716293

are startling (but unsurprising). There are many young women on twitter are happy to throw women under the bus to get positive vibes from the MRA-minded. I know it's old but it always comes as a shock.

When you read the article, it becomes immediately clear that he needs support a women's breast cancer group cannot provide.

He speaks of his shock, horror and shame at being diagnosed with what is commonly thought of as a women's illness.

He speaks specifically not about the cancer diagnosis per se being the shocking thing, but that he had breast cancer and about his fears that other men might doubt his masculinity and his manhood.

That is a markedly different reaction from the one women have to this diagnosis and needs a response that can adequately explore and address his emotional and mental needs.

As nowhere in the article is there even a hint of him being treated unkindly (beyond the fact that he was not kindly included in women's breast cancer support groups), there is no justification to assign blame to the women who rejected him (he approached several).

As pp pointed out, the women running the groups most likely told him about support dedicated to male breast cancer sufferers. And probably with sympathy and kindness - he does not claim otherwise.

A women's support group cannot and should not be expected to take care of the particular emotional needs arising from a breast cancer sufferer being male. That's why men founded support groups for male sufferers.

The article would have been much better and much more helpful, had the journalist bothered to explain this and then signposted other male sufferers to the specific support provided for them. It must be a common experience for men diagnosed with breast cancer to not know where to find support. Which is why I don't mind at all this poor man speaking out about this, it is a horrible disease after all, but the journalist missed an opportunity here to do some good with the story.

Exactly @NatyoCheese.

From the image in the OP

"left alone to feel that real men don't get breast cancer, he turned online to get support"

It sounds to me like he would benefit from talking to other males with breast cancer.

None the less. Women's groups are allowed to focus on women.

Ally Fogg (male Guardian journalist) policing & demanding of women explaining why single sex support groups are sometimes essential.

"1/ You'll need to point me to where in the coverage it says these Facebook groups were designated all-female?

2/ It's a story about the avoidable isolation & marginalisation of hundreds of men with cancer. Whether the solution may be a men's group or a gender-neutral group is by the by, your reaction is nasty & cruel."

twitter.com/AllyFogg/status/1232950818095206404

"1/ You'll need to point me to where in the coverage it says these Facebook groups were designated all-female?

...in... the... part.. where it says that... he was rejected from the groups because he's male? Like... in the headline?

What the fuck is he talking about?

He has previous form.

What the fuck is he talking about?

replying to myself because I can't get over that question. Does the clearheaded Mr Fogg not understand how Facebook groups work? The administrators set the rules of the group and determine who's allowed in them. Therefore if the group administrators choose to exclude men, it's an all-female group.

Does he simply think women aren't allowed to claim spaces of our own and that's where this weirdness about "designating" it an all-female group comes from? Clearly the group's administrators have designated it all-female, but they may not have sought a man's permission to do so.

Oh! I get it now. He means that the group administrators may not have explicitly labelled it an all-female group so that it could be appropriately targeted and reported by TRAs and taken down by Facebook.

Completely agree with charlie

Does he simply think women aren't allowed to claim spaces of our own and that's where this weirdness about "designating" it an all-female group comes from?

& when women do designate a group all-female, its challenged for excluding males who identify as women.

When I looked earlier some groups are clearly for women only from the name. Others say women only in the group description.

Some say open to all in the group description.

I expect there are some that are women only but the volunteer admins haven’t thought to make that super clear at first glance, but if you were a man scrolling through the search results, surely you’d start with the biggest ‘open to all’ group and then ask in that one for recommendations to other, more specific ones?

There are a couple of pages for male breast cancer awareness with more than 5k followers apiece, so messaging one of those and asking about support groups is another option.

Maybe I’m being too logical-lady-brain about it all

I don't think it's clear from the article whether this was a big issue for David that he's complaining about, or whether it's just the slant the journalist has given it.

Ah Mr Fogg, you walked straight into that one, didn’t you, pet?

Its astonishing how many males demand 'empathy' of women whilst demonstrating they have none for females.

It seems very likely that many such cases the false allegations are admissions & projections.

I'm harping on about this but it's so revealing. Designate is a very revealing choice of word. It doesn't mean "label" or "announce." It means something like "officially assign to" - as in, someone in authority has designated resource X for group Y.

If Ally Fogg believes that the group was somehow not "designated" for women, despite the evidence of the story itself, it means he doesn't believe the women running the group are the ultimate authorities over it. He genuinely believes that we need a man's permission.

If Ally Fogg believes that the group was somehow not "designated" for women, despite the evidence of the story itself, it means he doesn't believe the women running the group are the ultimate authorities over it. He genuinely believes that we need a man's permission.

Yes
Telling isnt it?

I wonder why Mr McCallion chose NOT to join any of the male breast cancer support groups online. There are several to choose from, a quick google reveals.
Or any of the male breast cancer support groups on facebook.
Or any of the mixed sex breast cancer support groups online or on facebook.
Or any of the mixed sex real life breast cancer support groups that are signposted on the Macmillan site within the Manchester region.

He mentions his awareness of the #BlueGetItToo male breast cancer campaign. I wonder why he didn't speak to them about support groups? That group was set up by a woman, for men's benefit.

I wonder why he specifically chose a female only support group and contacted the press to disparage them when they chose to remain female only?

It's quite a mystery.

The group I was in when I had breast cancer treatment was only for women under 45. It's rarer in younger women, and their needs and concerns are different from older women. Most of us either had kids, or wouldn't be able to have kids due to treatment (not all, obviously some were childless by choice).

The honesty was overwhelming and really comforting. Bluntly, losing breasts is a big deal to women. That's not the same concern for a male patient. The hormonal implications are likely to be different, too, in a wide range of ways. And chemo affects all parts of your body, which can be grim on the dignity front. A lot of us talked about symptoms we'd never have done outside that group in a million years. Relationships, too. Self image. All sorts of ways in which being vulnerable and rawly honest was the norm.

I'd not have joined, far less posted in, a mixed sex group. And I completely sympathise with men who feel the same way, and want their own. I'm really glad that they have that.

Lived experience matters. Solidarity matters.

And what on earth has it to do with trans? Why is this man even raising that? It's just to do with the need for suitable single sex provision. I'm really glad he has that, or mixed sex groups, available to him. I'm really glad older women have support groups available to them, too. I wanted one that understood what it is like to be a woman having breast cancer young. My group gave me that. By definition, if it took older members, or men, it couldn't.

It's okay to have places that meet the needs of specific demographics. Not everything's for everyone.

Incidentally, the admins of these facebook groups aren't just volunteers. They're cancer patients themselves. They're offering their time to support a specific demographic, for free.

Why does Ally whoever he is think their time is his to command?

No, I don't accept the women were at fault here at all. They have a facebook group, and he couldn't join it. He decided to go to The Metro and have a moan about that like it's an actual problem, rather than a boundary he simply wasn't permitted to cross, for perfectly valid reasons.

Nor do I. I set up a Facebook group once. It's very little effort to run, I'm the sole moderator and it now has 3500 or so members. He could have started one rather than criticising women.

This is as the EA states, it's ok to have a support group just for women if women will be put off seeking support by a male person. That even applies to MTFs. But this isn't even about gender identity.