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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Horrendous case transgender surgery

123 replies

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 05:48

The Telegraph reports a disturbing case involving a female to male patient. This patient had agreed to a hysterectomy, but repeatedly stated that they wished their vagina to remain intact. Not only did the surgeon remove the patient's vagina, but his colleague falsely amended the surgical form to make it appear the patient had consented. The patient describes the devastating impact upon their life and the surgeon has been fined and suspended. This case highlights the myriad problems with surgical interventions. In this case, the surgeon deliberately falsified records after performing an operation the patient had specifically refused. But what if the patient regrets the surgery even after giving consent? What if surgery is not a solution, but creates further, intractable problems? Why isn't therapy promoted first? I think there will come a point in the future when these draconian surgical interventions will be looked at with astonishment.

^Two Harley Street doctors have been suspended after mistakenly removing the vagina of a transgender patient without his consent.In what is believed to be the first case of its kind its kind inBritain the man - who was transitioning from a woman - was left “distraught” after the irreversible gender reassignment procedure was carried out.
A disciplinary tribunal heard that Giulio Garaffa, a gender reassignment consultant, mistakenly carried out the procedure and that his colleague Dr Marco Capece, in what was described as “a moment of panic”, “dishonestly” altered a form to say that consent had in fact been given^

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lanadelgrey · 26/02/2020 07:58

When reading about all these cases, I keep thinking back to breast enlargement in the 90s and subsequent problems with implants and other cosmetic surgery issues.
As it’s mostly private, the checks and balances and overall caution of NHS seems absent while the cash tills ring.
As ever, it will be the NHS picking up the pieces when things go wrong.

Cwenthryth · 26/02/2020 07:59

So - it is a case of ‘wrong procedure’ rather than straightforward ‘doctors randomly decide to remove vagina’ as the media is presenting it (and instigating the gut response outrage in my first post - lesson learned!).
Maybe the mainstream media isn’t comfortable describing the detail of surgery on a transman’s hormonally enlarged clitoris.
This explains the low level of consequence for the surgeons. It was actually an admin error (and then fraud - the falsification of records is more serious). Those happen. It would be interesting to see what pre-surgery checklist protocols this private hospital uses. Sounds basic, but checklists including things such as ‘and exactly what procedure are we doing today? Which leg are we amputating? Is this the right patient?’ drastically reduce instances of patients having the wrong surgery. It is easy to suppose that private hospitals may not follow the same rigorous protocols that are standard in larger, more accountable organisations.

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 08:00

It’s awful, but I’m not sure it says anything specifically about the ethics of doctors working in gender reassignment though, as a one off scenario

Really? I disagree. The number of specialist surgeons in this area is tiny. This case involves two of them. One of them performed a surgery in direct contravention of the patient's wishes His colleague deliberately falsified the surgical record to conceal this fact These surgeries are elective The first duty of a doctor is to do no harm. Do you think that draconian surgical interventions such as this do no harm? In 12 months both surgeons will be operating again. How will that affect the future well being of future natal female patients?

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SisterWendyBuckett · 26/02/2020 08:01

This type of surgery is experimental and radical. It is fraught with complications and dangers for the patients.

Scott Newgent nearly died and suffered immensely after post operative complications following surgery. Scott implores other transmen NOT to go along this path and is a passionate campaigner against the medicalisation of children and young people.

Medical experimentation on transpeople - in particular natal females - is abhorrent. It's experimental, with extremely poor outcomes on people who really are being treated as guinea pigs.

It makes me wonder what kind of doctors carry this surgery out and why.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/02/2020 08:02

Didn't Harley St used to be sort of a bastion of wealth and assumed quality? Lately every time I hear about it it's in the context of dodgy cosmetic surgery or something similar.

And yes, the falsification of records should have triggered a throw the book at them response, because if they've done it once that's likely not the only time.

nevernotstruggling · 26/02/2020 08:03

I'm so bloody confused by this. Was retaining the vagina needed to create the phallus in the future? Or was the patient aiming to have male and female organs?

Sheshehe · 26/02/2020 08:03

Poor person. How horrific to be recovering from surgery and then discover this. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone but when a transman has a hysterectomy and restructuring of the female genitalia does it usually involve closing up the vaginal opening? I don’t understand the ‘removal’ part? A hysterectomy is a huge operation on its own particularly if it’s not done via keyhole but having the other procedure on top of that is brutal. I should imagine that it is usually only done in cases of cancer. That poor patient. They must be both physically and mentally traumatised. I hope they’re getting good medical care and support. Those surgeons should never be allowed to practise again.

nevernotstruggling · 26/02/2020 08:03

Also what happens to the urethra?

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 08:05

As ever, it will be the NHS picking up the pieces when things go wrong

I am not sure that is true, at least not in this specific case. This draconian surgery does not leave any ability for reversal. It raises serious questions about the ethics of those performing it.

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DryHeave · 26/02/2020 08:06

There seems to be worryingly low levels of probity exhibited by doctors specialising in gender-related surgery and medication.

SarahTancredi · 26/02/2020 08:08

The NHS will probably picking up the tab for any counselling or ABs or ADs or pain killers etc for the following months/years though wont they?

The private sector will have to deal with follow ups/repairs etc but after that its take the money and that's job done isn't it?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/02/2020 08:10

Re urethra question, the male urethra is longer because it has to traverse the length of the penis, so quite what you do to a female urethra to make that work I'm not sure, but I would imagine that plenty of things can go wrong. With vaginoplasty I know fistulas are quite common.

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 08:11

It makes me wonder what kind of doctors carry this surgery out and why

I agree. Ethical surgeons are reluctant to perform hysterectomies, even when there is a medical condition such as fibroids. Other treatment options are encouraged. This is drastic, elective surgery. And both of these surgeons will be wielding scalpels again in 12 months.

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FannyCann · 26/02/2020 08:14

It would be interesting to know more about the investigation. There are more people in the operating theatre with responsibility for what goes on in there than just the surgeons.
At the start of every operation a WHO checklist has to be read, which includes checking the identity of the patient, the people in the room, the consent and the procedure planned.
Other people knew...

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 08:15

Surely the first questions to ask are have they done this or similar before, how often, and to whom?

Absolutely agree Kitten

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SarahTancredi · 26/02/2020 08:21

Yeah they have done it before.

It's like anything isnt it. You dont go from.exemplary record to removing a vagina in one hit. There are "gateways".

Nor would you do so in a room.full of other people.

Awfully convenient that the entire theatre staff were those who just turned a blind eye. That's not likely without some kind of long running experience surely?

LangClegTheBeardedVulture · 26/02/2020 08:21

They haven’t been struck off for this??!!! WTF?!

SisterWendyBuckett · 26/02/2020 08:21

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/02/2020 08:22

Yeah, not one person noticed that that particular procedure hadn't been planned? Not buying it.

feelingverylazytoday · 26/02/2020 08:23

I agree with PP, these doctors should be in jail. Absolutely appalling case.
I didn't even know that the vagina could be removed. It certainly isn't done routinely as part of a hysterectomy.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/02/2020 08:24

These surgeries can't give people the bodies they want, or think they want, all they can do is provide a very poor cosmetic imitation of the real thing at the cost of massively reduced functionality, a great deal of pain, and ultimately disappointment. Why would any society encourage young people down that path?

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 08:25

They haven’t been struck off for this??!!! WTF?!

That is another serious issue. The protection doctors and other medical professionals have from facing appropriate consequences for significant surgical or medical failures. It is dire.

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Aesopfable · 26/02/2020 08:29

We don’t really have a ‘private health service’ in the UK - we have private providers of specific procedures (which can also be paid for by the NHS) but in nearly all cases if something goes wrong the patient has to transfer to the NHS. I think there is only one private ICU in the UK.

hokolo · 26/02/2020 08:31

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hokolo · 26/02/2020 08:32

^ This observation is not related to the crime committed against this person. It's a separate general point.