Female violence has tripled in the last decade

[PlantainMountain]

I read this statistic in an article about Caroline Flack earlier today and thought there must be some caveat, but it's seemingly true.

Women now commit almost a third of domestic assaults and charities estimate the true figure to be much higher due to the stigma men face in coming forward - this is backed up by other studies which show that the number of assaults against men always comes out higher when interviewing women rather than men (i.e. more women apparently admit to having assaulted their partner than men admit to having been assaulted).

I'm a bit shocked by this and surprised it's not been mentioned on here.

The fact that 1 in 9 ‘female’-perpetrated ‘attacks’ are recorded in a single police force - West Yorkshire - hmm should give immediate pause for thought on the validity/true representativeness(?) of these numbers

Bloody hell. And Holbeck's there too. Reminds self never to live in West Yorkshire.

Of course women can be violent and aggressive too - but in nowhere near the numbers that men are. And - this is important - even if they are physically violent they are capable of less harm (adult women are weaker than almost all adult men). Biological reality and all that.

That doesn't mean they should get away with it at all though and I hope the OP's brother gets help and gets out.

I'd like to see a breakdown on xx vs xy violence. If males are counted as females now, (since the 10 year period began), the data isn't in any way reliable. It's the kind of thing we learned in GCSE Sociology tbh.

That was absolutely fascinating royal thanks for posting the link

What will also skew the figures is the fact that where a woman reports multiple incidents of domestic violence against her perpetrated by the same abuser, the police do not actually record them all. IIRC, they record 5 and then stop.

The other issue is, as PP have said, that Karen Ingala Smith, who delved into this issue found that counter to common sense notions of domestic violence against men, they report more often than women, are taken seriously more than women when they do, bring their attacker to court more often and succeed in court more often than women.

There are other flaws with the statistics (such as paying no attention to the disparity in force), but what is undoubtedly true is that both sexes can be victim and abuser. However, there is a clear divide between the sexes - men are much more likely to be the perpetrators, women more likely to be the victim. And that is an issue that must be acknowledged and addressed.

they report more often than women, are taken seriously more than women when they do, bring their attacker to court more often and succeed in court more often than women

Well, that's depressing.

Karen Ingala Smith, who delved into this issue found that counter to common sense notions of domestic violence against men, they report more often than women, are taken seriously more than women when they do, bring their attacker to court more often and succeed in court more often than women.

I'm always a bit dubious when feminists present statistics though as there's often an inherent bias - like with Cordelia Fine who has been accused by scientists (she's not one herself) of cherry picking data and ignoring the many studies indicating that testosterone may affect violent behaviour.

I don't mean to offend anybody but what I've seen has told a different story. Like the social experiments recently discussed (was it on morning tv?) where they staged domestic incidents - people tended to help the women but laugh at the men. The same happened to one of my close male friends. His partner (ex competitive kickboxer) attacked him in the street and people were laughing and filming it. When he managed to get hold of her arms, a few people came over and asked if she was ok. Every time he reported a domestic incident the police would put him in a cell for the night. She's now apparently beating up her new partner.

I'm not sure I'd take the word of a feminist activist over DV charities and the police without verifying the facts tbh.

It is always good to verify the facts. I suggest you start by reading Karen’s peer reviewed published work before dismissing it in favour of dubious statistics from sources that cannot even tell a man from a woman.

When feminists present statistics there may be an inherent bias....
And when men present statistics there may also be an inherent bias

Just saying

Your OP states "Female violence has tripled"
Your actual references are regarding "domestic abuse". It is pretty well known that approx 40% of victims of domestic abuse are men. The Guardian covered this some time ago.

You don't seem to realise domestic abuse and domestic violence are very different.

Domestic abuse includes
Swearing at you partner.
Shouting loudly.
Locking them out of the house.
Reading their text and email messages.
Gaslighting
Many more non-violent examples.

None of these abusive behaviours are categorically violent.

There is a distinction. You simply don't hear about men being killed by their wives/girlfriends 2 women a week are killed by domestic violence.

Each incident is counted as one incident of domestic abuse.
So when a woman acts in self defense against a violent partner, her actions are counted as an incident of domestic abuse.

''This article provides a review of research literature on women who use violence with intimate partners. The central purpose is to inform service providers in the military and civilian communities who work with domestically violent women. The major points of this review are as follows: (a) women’s violence usually occurs in the context of violence against them by their male partners; (b) in general, women and men perpetrate equivalent levels of physical and psychological aggression, but evidence suggests that men perpetrate sexual abuse, coercive control, and stalking more frequently than women and that women also are much more frequently injured during domestic violence incidents; (c) women and men are equally likely to initiate physical violence in relationships involving less serious “situational couple violence,” and in relationships in which serious and very violent “intimate terrorism” occurs, men are much more likely to be perpetrators and women victims; (d) women’s physical violence is more likely than men’s violence to be motivated by self-defense and fear, whereas men’s physical violence is more likely than women’s to be driven by control motives; (e) studies of couples in mutually violent relationships find more negative effects for women than for men; and (f ) because of the many differences in behaviors and motivations between women’s and men’s violence, interventions based on male models of partner violence are likely not effective for many women.''

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2968709/

Fair point, but are there enough transwomen in relationships with men to be able to make up a third of domestic violence incidents? I'd be very surprised.

I’m probably being really slow but why would transwomen have to be in a relationship with men for them to count in the domestic violence incidents?

I'm not sure I'd take the word of a feminist activist over DV charities and the police without verifying the facts tbh.

Karen Ingala Smith runs a very well respected DV charity!

Transwoman in relationship with woman. Beats woman, gets arrested. At police station gives ‘female’ name and says ‘I identify as a woman’ and the crime is recorded as being committed by a female, as per official guidelines. What am I missing?

Karen Ingala Smith runs a very well respected DV charity

I think maybe its the wrong type of well respected DV charity

I think you are right Rufus, and tbh I'm struggling to understand why the OP has posted on a feminist board when the OP clearly has no respect for feminists.

You simply don't hear about men being killed by their wives/girlfriends 2 women a week are killed by domestic violence.

From the Office for National Statistics for the year April 2018 - March 2019:

5.How were victims and suspects related?
Adult victims
There were large differences in the profile of victim-suspect relationships between men and women victims. In the year ending March 2019, female victims were more likely to be killed by a partner or ex-partner or a family member, while male victims were more likely to be killed by a friend or acquaintance, stranger or other known person.

Almost half (48%) of adult female homicide victims were killed in a domestic homicide (99). This was an increase of 12 homicides compared with the previous year. In contrast, 8% of male victims were victims of domestic homicide (30) in the latest year. This was an increase of six homicides compared with the previous year.

In almost 4 in 10 female homicide victims aged 16 years or over, the suspect was their partner or ex-partner (38%, 80 homicides). This was an increase of 17 homicides compared with the previous year. However, the 63 homicides in the previous year was the lowest number in the last 40 years.1 Over the last 10 years there was an average of 82 female victims a year killed by a partner or ex-partner.

In contrast, there were only 4% of male victims aged 16 years and over where the suspect was their partner or ex-partner (16 homicides, Appendix Table 11, Figure 5).

For adult male victims, the suspect was most likely to be a friend or social acquaintance (27%, 105 men). The suspect was less likely to be a friend or social acquaintance when the victim was female (8%, 16 women).

The suspect was a stranger for just over one-fifth of male victims (22%, 85 victims). This was a decrease of 40% compared with the previous year (141 victims), when there was a large peak. The 85 victims in the last year sees a return to the levels seen between the year ending March 2014 to the year ending March 2016 (Appendix Table 11). The suspect was less likely to be a stranger when the victim was female (6%, 13 victims).

In 37% of female homicides recorded in the year ending March 2019, no suspect had been identified for the offence at the time of analysis (76 victims). The percentage of male victims with no suspect identified was similar, at 31% (124 victims). These numbers are likely to decrease as the police continue their investigations.

@PlantainMountain: I'm not sure I'd take the word of a feminist activist over DV charities and the police without verifying the facts tbh.

Karen Ingala Smith has given evidence to both the British and Scottish Parliaments on domestic violence. She's been CEO of a major DV charity for over a decade, providing an array of support including refuges that accommodate women with a history of sex work, and women with substance abuse difficulties, after 30 years in the sector. She also produces peer reviewed research, as a way to better inform her work. If you pop over to AIBU, MNHQ have pinned her Femicide Census as their pinned post. She's highly expert in the field, and her views carry very considerable weight.

You may want to read this, perhaps? Dr Jessica Taylor heads a charity providing an array of support for men with mental health challenges. She also works as an academic researching female victimisation. She's a psychologist.

I think it probably needs to be mentioned that women here have given you an array of fairly academically respectable data, while you've linked to the Daily Mail, discussed daytime TV, and referred to your experiences with two people close to you. I do appreciate that seeing your brother suffer will affect your views, and of course some men are truly victimised by violent women. But it's still a bit much to start arguing that the data provided to you isn't up to snuff, in that comparative sort of context. I also think it's very hard to argue any sort of parity when you look at death rates. I mean, arguments can rage about what the contents and significance of police reports represent, but deaths are pretty unequivocal.

I'm always a bit dubious when feminists present statistics though as there's often an inherent bias - like with Cordelia Fine who has been accused by scientists (she's not one herself) of cherry picking data and ignoring the many studies indicating that testosterone may affect violent behaviour.

So... you do think that men are by nature considerably more violent? Because that's what you appear to be saying, in indicating disagreement with feminist data handling? I have to admit, I do find your position a tad incoherent. And that's before approaching your own bias, in assuming 'scientists' are different from feminists, in possessing neutrality and being without biases or prejudices of their own. All scientists and researchers are human beings. None are without bias, even if bias in favour of a status quo is harder to recognise. There's a great book you might be interested in reading, which addresses how huge the impact of implicit bias in our societies. (It is by a feminist, yes. But it's fairly heavy on material fact and proven data, too. Has been known to happen!)

Clearly, when someone is the victim of abuse, it's no comfort whatsoever whether they're the norm or a statistical outlier. They just need help. But that's a long way from arguing that statistical and research evidence is worthless unless it confirms an existing bias of your own. I mean, that starting point is the subject of a fair amount of research, all by itself.

I don't believe any stats the police put out. They've discredited themselves so thoroughly. They record non-crimes as hate crimes, men as women, rapes as no crimes - who can depend on anything they say any more.

Fair point, but are there enough transwomen in relationships with men to be able to make up a third of domestic violence incidents? I'd be very surprised.

They could be in relationships with women - which is more likely.

This is from 2002 www2.gov.scot/Publications/2002/09/15201/9618

This research uncovered that a number of men (over one in four) had inaccurately reported experiences of force or threats from a partner in the SCS 2000 self-completion questionnaire.

It's actually all very interesting research - the differences between male and female victims.

I can't see it now in that report but previously I'd also read, but there's not any more stigma to men reporting abuse - the idea that women are straight down the cop-shop and supported by all and sundry for doing so is absolute rubbish.

I’ve been searching on www.whatdotheyknow.com and can’t find anything relevant - these claims were originally based on a FOI from The Sunday Telegraph. How can we find that FOI? We have seen the Chinese whispers effect on this thread of ‘domestic abuse’ to ‘female violence’ - I’d be very interested to see what the original questions & data were.

wellbehavedwoman brilliant post. OP’s casual dismissal of ‘feminists’ (whilst unquestioningly accepting a second-hand report in The Daily Mail?) is very telling, even if OP is not aware of that bias.

Lies, damn lies and statistics, as the phrase goes.

like with Cordelia Fine who has been accused by scientists (she's not one herself) of cherry picking data

Cordelia Fine has a degree and PhD in Experimental Psychology. Seems a reasonably scientific background to me.

wellbehavedwoman what a brilliant post. I have read Invisible Women and it made me so angry

I really don't think we should use police data when talking about the prevalence of domestic violence. This is entirely anecdotal but I know multiple women who have experienced DV and none of it has gone anywhere near the police. I'm sure that must be the case for many, many more women out there. Police data will also obscure the many women (and children) who are not being physically attacked but live every day under the threat of violence.

Cwenthryth whatdotheyknow only contains FOIs submitted through them. I know some councils maintain a seperate register of any FOIs they receive. I imagine most won’t go through the likes of that website as it is often easier just to email an organisation rather that register on a website first.

Excellent post wellbehavedwomen