We Hunted The Mammoth: How a good feminist site got corrupted

[NotTerfNorCis]

A few years ago, We Hunted the Mammoth was a great resource against MRAs. Its founder, David Futrelle, was fearless in 'exposing the new online misogyny' - the world of men's rights activists, incels, MGTOWs (men going their own way) and PUAs (pick-up artists). Personally I'd go there several times a day for info and support.

Sure, the MRAs claimed Futrelle was a misogynist, and I did wonder if he wallowed too much in the filth he uncovered, but I liked the guy. He took a lot of flack for his beliefs.

Fast forward three and a half years. The site is now rancid. MRAs are yesterday's news - there's nothing much to say about them, beyond 'exposing' incels who sound like unhappy kids. The new target is gender critical feminists. I've just spent all day there before being banned. It's insane. A weird, twisted cult.

Did anyone else ever use We Hunted the Mammoth? What do you think of it now? Am I overreacting? Or was Futrelle always a bit dubious?

Yeah I remember that site - I guess this is another mark in the "beware your allies" book!

I used to follow someone called "take down MRAs" on twitter - quite a small account - also gone totally "TWAW you bitches". Weird.

Yes same! Take Down MRAs is also run by men. I think there was a split in mainstream feminism in about 2016, with some going TWAW and some going TWATW, and the male-run sites were more likely to go TWAW.

i've never visited that site before but if the new game in town on there is TWAW that suggests to me the site was never about feminism or tackling misogyny but merely a grift for the man running it.

I like men and their support is important but a few of the GC men on twitter seem to think that this is an unimportant issue and some threaten to abandon the fight because a couple of women were rude them.

That site opened my eyes to how TRAs operate and put me on the path to Gender Critical Feminism. The 'Thread of Doom', which was a few years ago, was an eyeopener when a group of TW suddenly started commenting on posts and calling many of the regular posters 'TERFs' after one person asked politely that the word 'TERF' not be used. It degenerated quickly with many accusations made, name calling etc.

The Bewilderness used to post there but she and many others left the site after that thread. I occasionally look at it but the TRA's (and other posters) are so vocal, threatening, rude and blinkered there is little point trying to have a reasonable discussion with any of them.

I haven't ever looked at these sites, but I find that usually there is some reason that a person or group would have an interest in exposing something like misogynistic groups, and then support something like gender ideology. There is some link, or fact they see as relevant to both.

If I were to take a stab in the dark in this case it might be a rejection of substantial differences between the sexes.

Maybe it's still 'feminist', but just the other type. Woke uni students etc.

merely a grift for the man running it

Futrelle used to do regular fundraising drives, together with pictures of cats. I didn't see that when I went back but I can't imagine he's stopped doing it. It's his livelihood.

the TRA's (and other posters) are so vocal, threatening, rude and blinkered

Yes in the few hours I was there I got called Nazi, terf, scum, evil, and told to go fuck myself. I was totally polite and suggested they were being aggressive... after my banning they were talking about me and seemed genuinely upset I'd thought they were aggressive. Anywhere else, I might've thought they were trolling, but on WHTM it seems genuine.

might be a rejection of substantial differences between the sexes.

It's more like gender stereotypes is everything now. Biological sex is irrelevant. You are how you identify.

I used to think Futrelle was doing a good thing by finding these examples of misogyny but it did go too far. It was like he and his readers got a kick out of reading all this grim sexist stuff, it went beyond 'exposing' it. A lot of this obscene misogyny came from just a handful of obviously unhappy people buried on some obscure talkboard. I used to wonder what the point was in airing it.

My feeling is that Futrelle is not fully on board with TWAW because it doesn't fit logically with what he was fighting before. The anti-woman sentiment on MRA/PUA websites is clearly directed at sex, not gender. MRAs think women are only good for breeding. PUAs aren't plotting to rape transwomen. That kind of site is obsessed with the female body. I reckon Futrelle knows that misogyny is rooted in sex, but his site has been taken over by TRAs and others with a certain mentality, and in order to make money he has to go along with it.

(Shrugs)

He invited the vampire into his house and now he has to live with the consequences. It's not like multiple people didn't try to warn him.

Every formerly feminist site that allowed that to happen is pretty much just tumbleweeds and screeches of "TERF" and "bigot" now. In the case of those run by "feminist" men, well, radfems have been pointing out that this is one of many reasons why men don't belong in feminism for a long time.

The F Word website was one of the first to go and is now steadfastly ignoring the whole debate. I do think that without Mumsnet today's situation would be very different. I know it's not perfect but without it... I wonder where we would be.

I think mumsnet is the reason there is more 'resistance' in this country than others.

I think mumsnet is the reason there is more 'resistance' in this country than others.

Well, there has to be a reason the Misogynist Monitors spend so much time patrolling FWR.

I think mumsnet is the reason there is more 'resistance' in this country than others.

So do I.

If MRAs had dreamt up a sneaky way to destroy feminism, they couldn't have done much better than genderism, which is destroying feminism from within.

Everything refers back to genderism and its grievances. I went back to WHTM after someone said 'terfs' are 'enforcing two genders'. I tried to explain the difference between sex and gender. They accused me of reducing women to baby factories. I said that's not how GC feminism works - we acknowledge biology but then say what women do with that biology is their business. Then they wanted me to explain some random on Twitter who said motherhood was the high point of being a woman. I said some feminists celebrate motherhood because it's such a big part of many women's lives.

After I'd been banned, they picked up on that again... and accused me of deliberately trying to erase trans mothers. Meaning transwomen who are parents. Yeah... it's all about their ideology.

I used to enjoy the F Word and it had plenty of engagement - not now...

I always found We Hunted The Mammoth smug and nauseating, and full of overbearing men. As a new poster in 2013/2014 some man (and it always was a man) would come and give you a long set of woke diktats after you posted for the first time. They enjoyed talking down to women. It's not what I would really think of as a feminist space, more a "look what crazy thing I found on Reddit" space.

It used to be called something else before it was WHTM, anyone remember what it was?

In the case of those run by "feminist" men, well, radfems have been pointing out that this is one of many reasons why men don't belong in feminism for a long time.

And yes, WHTM is a perfect example of this.

Eresh, was it Manboobz? A self-deprecating joke by Futrelle?

I remember that even before the TRA takeover, people could be abusive as they wanted but they weren't allowed to call anyone stupid or mad. Because that was ableist. It's always been a 'careful you don't offend certain posters' place.

Yes! Remember now

Thank you, that would have bugged me all day!

A few years ago, 2013 - 16, fighting MRAs was bringing feminists together. It was something radical and liberal feminists could agree on. Futrelle himself was feted in the mainstream press as a feminist warrior. Then it all went to shit when genderism burst on the scene.

Genderism had been lurking for a while, of course. But I think it only went mainstream in 2016.

No problem Eresh!

Even the feminist lite sites like Jezebel have been irreparably damaged by genderism. As much of the conspiracy theory part of my brain wants to think that the post 2016 fragmenting of feminism that genderism has achieved is some sort of deliberate Cointelpro thing it's more likely to be a combination of personality disordered people always wreaking havoc on the groups they target, some women finding it hard to resist the programming to kiss men's arses, and the inadvisability of allowing men to lead feminist groups/spaces in the first place.

Personality disordered sounds right. There was something really off about the behaviour I saw. It went beyond passionate political discussion. There was a lot of hate for anyone with different views... hate and a sense of deep personal hurt that anyone might disagree.

The Fword was my go-to website too.

But I knew it had changed and I rarely went back.
It changed and I couldn't fathom out why.

I came to Mumsnet for other reasons and now I know why.

TW had muscled themselves in the Fword space.

I was sleeping, now I am awake and aware.