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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pink News: I am no longer using the word woman and prefer to use trans

11 replies

Awning10 · 23/02/2020 11:27

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/11/05/juno-roche-trans-power-author-woman-identity-pronouns-they-them/

OP posts:
WorkingItOutAsIGo · 23/02/2020 11:34

That makes a lot of sense. Power to them!

Qcng · 23/02/2020 11:39

Juno has been saying sensible things for some time, I've read a few articles by Juno, and usually have great respect for their point of view.
I'm surprised Pink News publish anything written by Juno at all!

JellySlice · 23/02/2020 15:11
Hmm

It felt like I had to do work to inhabit the word woman whereas I never had to do any work to inhabit the word trans – trans I did brilliantly.

It's still ME! ME! ME!

Nothing to do with understanding that they are trying to appropriate something which is not theirs.

Binterested · 23/02/2020 15:39

How weird. I don’t have to do anything to inhabit the word woman. I just sit here being one.

I currently look an absolute sight. I’m wearing leggings and a sweatshirt, no makeup, specs on, sprawling on the sofa in an undignified manner I make it look effortless (because it is).

TheShoesa · 23/02/2020 15:39

There was a thread about this a little while back:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3737031-Trans-person-talks-about-identity-and-makes-sense

loveyouradvice · 23/02/2020 16:59

I hadn't realised this had already been covered

Personally I am much more comfortable with people identifying as Trans ra ther than a type of woman.... it seems like a really good building block to start from. "Trans-identified" ... great Much more honest

Binterested · 23/02/2020 17:04

We got banned from describing people like Juno like that. But then if they say that’s what they are, maybe we will be allowed again. Funny who gets to control what language to use about this when there’s no compunction about controlling women’s language about women.

DidoLamenting · 23/02/2020 17:17

I subscribe to Blaire White's YouTube channel. Thinking on this, Blair describes herself as "trans". If she refers to being a trans woman it's usually in the context of trans women not being women. She is also happy to call herself a tranny, but that is her prerogative, not other people's.

An aside, a recent video was on the subject of sport referring to McKinnon. White's view, unsurprisingly, is sport should be segregated by biological sex. Although having had no interaction with McKinnon on Twitter White is, unsurprisingly, blocked by McKinnon.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 23/02/2020 17:23

Funny who gets to control what language to use about this

Very good point. Is it just certan men who have the powers to veto women's speech, do you think, or will any one do?

JellySlice · 23/02/2020 18:44

If a person doesn't feel comfortable with their maleness or femaleness, and wants to call themselves ' trans' and present in a non-standard way, or in a stereotypical way for the other sex, fine. They should have every right to do so. But why should a male who considers himself ' trans' be referred to with feminine pronouns? Why is the presumption that if he doesn't want to be 'he', then he must be 'she'? And vice-versa, too.

[MNHQ - this is a general point, relevant to a discussion about males who do not consider themselves to be either women or men. It may be inspired by individuals, but is pointedly not in reference to any individual.]

wellbehavedwomen · 23/02/2020 19:01

Isn't that just non-binary, though?

What I don't get is why people who feel this way don't recognise that they're saying gender straitjackets don't work for them, and that they have a sex but that shouldn't define who they are unless their biology has an impact on their own or other people's safety, representation or participation. Otherwise, they just want to be who they are.

Why the huge theoretical super-structure around people who are, basically, simply saying that what society says they can be based on sex is too restrictive? If it's so restrictive, why assume you must be the opposite sex - why not embrace real diversity, within your biological sex? And why isn't all this energy and campaigning going into that - a true free to be me campaign? With hate crimes defined by anyone who harms, abuses or oppresses a person based on gender expression or biological sex?

The whole thing just seems so extraneous and overloaded, quite honestly. I don't mean truly dysphoric people. That's a very painful, and thankfully rare, condition, when it persists into adult life. All for trying to support and help those rare cases. But for most - why not campaign to allow people just to be, as who they are?

It makes no sense. Painful and dangerous surgery that can make someone incontinent - very high risk. Post-mastectomy pain syndrome is never discussed either, but it's really common (due to nerve damage - breasts have a lot of them). Hormones not designed at those levels in those bodies, with risks we really don't fully understand as yet. And while those are thankfully a minority of cases, the risks to women of this nutty refusal to engage with biological fact affects a huge number of people. Why? What for? Why can't boys wear dresses if they like, and girls adore construction? Why must people insist that this should mean sex is a mistake?

It's all so... silly. Yet it wreaks absolute havoc. Carnage on the young women and girls at GIDS, if they aren't allowed to just grow up and accept themselves, as most will left to do so.

I know we know all this. I know all this. But now and then, the surreal nature of it - effectively, a bunch of undergraduate navel-gazing elevated to a state-supported religious faith - gets to me. It's like Scientologists took over and anyone objecting is deemed hateful.

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