Why are so many GC people clinging onto Labour?

[GeordieTerf]

I really don't understand why so many GC people are still in Labour?

Labour have made it very clear that they don't think biology exists. They have made it very clear that the subjective notion of gender is one that everyone must believe in. They have also made it clear that anyone who even questions these views should be either re-educated or thrown out of the party.

I will not allow myself to be treated this way. I know that I am right to be gender critical. I also know that I have science and the silent majority behind me. Labour don't want me, so I will happily go elsewhere.

Also: if the leaders are gaslighting us over this issue, what else are they gaslighting us with? Those leading are undoubtedly smart enough to see through this nonsense, yet they preach it anyway. If they're willing to lie about this, then what else are they lying about? I can't trust them.

There is no alternative - this has to be fought from within. Bar starting a new party - which would be single issue and have all the barriers which that entails - this has to be fought by its own members.

I joined the Labour Party after the general election precisely because of the state they’re in, given our political system they are the only hope for our country to have anything other than a Conservative government - so I thought, well the Labour Party need turning around, they need some decent feminism as an antidote to all the identity twaddle, they need me, basically!

Labour are and always have been a broad church, made up of many disparate groups coming together as a political union. Listening to this podcast podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-beginners-guide-to-the-labour-party/id1125000940 was useful in getting a handle on all for anyone like me who hasn’t grown up with the movement. So when people say “Labour believes TWAW” - I don’t agree - influential people within the party may claim that, but, like feminism, Labour isn’t the Borg.

Networking is happening - I contacted Labour Women’s Declaration and they have connected me with others in my constituency already.

It is the only left wing party that has ever got a chance of beating the tories, albeit not right now and the best chance of change is from within.

I am in Scotland so at least we have a left wing alternative in the SNP, I'm deeply unhappy with Mhari Black and the proposed GRC reforms but there are also strong GC voices in the party too.

Because any political party is it's people. GC issues only came across my radar because of outspoken women in my local Labour Party who have spent their energy for years on women's rights, gay rights, anti-racism, community clubs, general picking up of the pieces after austerity hit, basically as far as I can see they've been keeping our area together for the last 20-40 years. If I left the Labour Party now, it would be a betrayal of them and leave them another vote more isolated. One day there will be enough of us to get a leader who cares about women and who understands non-violent communications and will deal with the people using the threat of violence to intimidate women like at the Brighton meeting. The people at the top have lost their way, not for the first time, but they are not the party, any more than Boris Johnson is Britain.

I get the decision to leave too. Both leaving and staying will send signals to the LP about its direction in different ways.

I take op's point. I just started a thread about Dawn Butler on R4 this morning who seemed to accept that biology is real. It's embarrassingly craven of me to hope that the party that should stand for social justice and women's rights can talk about this properly and lead the discussion. Not being sarcastic. I fear it is embarrassingly craven.

I'm not sure why people think the Conservative position on GC is wildly different. This is from the official Conservative LGBT affiliate:

twitter.com/LGBTCons/status/1227168796110094336

Well according to the Times, the Tories are ditching the proposed GRA reform, and there’s to be a review of the appalling policy of experimenting on children with poverty blockers.
So I’d suggest any GC Labour supporters - hell, ALL female Labour supporters- should come over to us here in team Boris.

Puberty, not poverty, obvs! Bloody phone.

I left Labour a couple of years ago. A good friend of mine, who comes from a family of miners and trade unionists, spoke up at a Labour meeting in favour of Brexit and was shouted down and called a bigot and an "ignorant c*t" by the Bromentum people. He walked out and cut up his membership card and I cancelled my membership when he told me this story. The trans stuff is just another symptom of the deep rot that has set in in the Labour Party. I'm not going to be called bigot/terf/c*t by my own party. Fuck that.

People blinding by brand loyalty is the reason.
The same reason people have suddenly realised right wing papers aren't terrible.
The left (and right) is built on people who vote due to loyality.

The idea that left= good and right=bad is very hard to shake off.

It's amazing when you see the lightbulb switch on and posters realise that they are all the same.

They believe that you can literally change sex.

This is where I get stumped. I mean, nobody really believes that, do they? Not really....

It’s easy to believe if you redefine the word sex as a spectrum.

I consider myself lucky that I was never brought up to believe tory=bad, labour=good. My Dad was a Labour voter and my Mum a Tory and I grew up thinking you voted for the party whose policies you most agreed with. It was unlikely that your views would ever 100% align with one party.

It wasn’t until I left home (very safe Tory seat) and went to Uni that I came across people who literally thought Tory voters were all scum. It was quite strange and alien to me.

I’ve always been a swing voter. I voted Labour in 2015 but couldn’t vote for them under Corbyn. The 2019 manifesto crossed too many ‘red lines’ for me that I couldn’t vote for. At the moment I couldn’t vote for them again.

For anyone wanting a GC party that is not Conservative, then the SDP is probably the best option. They are currently a very small party and don’t have candidates in every constituency. I don’t know a lot of details about their policies, but they definitely don’t believe that women can have penises.

I was discussing with someone recently how she wants to stay in the Labour Party and change from within. I pointed out Labour want to expel people with her views, so she said she'd stay in the party and not say anything

But if that is the tactic, why not join the Conservative Party and try and effect change from within that? Given they are on the brink of shelving the whole damn GRA thing anyway; AND they already have MPs who think its a load of old shit; AND they are in power and can make or break legislation, that would seem a far stronger bet than a bunch of misogynistic, unelectable clowns to have any hope of changong policies or processes (on anything)

That is excellent logic, Buzz.

I’m not sure I’d be able to hold my nose for years on end, though.

...it's my fucking party

and I'll fucking cry if I want to.

Beacause for all its many faults, the core of the Labour Party is still the party that cares, and the Tories will always be the party that doesn't give a toss about anyone else.

But if that is the tactic, why not join the Conservative Party and try and effect change from within that?
Because supporting a political party is not a single issue decision and we all have our own priorities and mixtures of concerns and political philosophies to take into account when making the decision.

That said, if there are gender critical women who can reconcile their personal philosophy with supporting the Conservative party, then I 100% support them joining to hope to influence policy in this area.

I’m not sure I’d be able to hold my nose for years on end, though.

Noseclip?

the core of the Labour Party is still the party that cares, and the Tories will always be the party that doesn't give a toss about anyone else.

This sort of arrogant attitudinal kneejerk comment isn't helpful. People vote differently, shocker. Doesn't make them evil to their core or that they "don't give a toss". Both parties have good and bad policies, values, beliefs.

Beacause for all its many faults, the core of the Labour Party is still the party that cares, and the Tories will always be the party that doesn't give a toss about anyone else.

Brand loyalty in action, they could be spitting on their voters and there will always be a bunch who truly think they care.
They have outright said they don't want you and you are still there!

I’m not sure I’d be able to hold my nose for years on end, though.

Isn't that what you are doing with labour?

I made no comments about voters and who they choose. Every voter has their reasons.

Britneypeedonaladybug, I would have given your comment more than two seconds consideration if it was clear you had actually read mine. I am the canvasser, the woman I was talking to was my Labour MP.

Sorry, please replace ‘canvasser’ with MP and reconsider it.

I am not leaving as I have no intention of doing the gestapo's work for them.

Spoke to LP official today and her opinion is that higher up officials, MPs and leadership hopefulls niether know or care about this actual issue.
They are though surrounded by young staffers, often male, who have been indoctornated at certain unis (Oxford VERY much comes to mind) with gender idology.
That and the fact that the only constuents who are contacting them about this issue are TRAs has led them to genuinly think the public are gungho for this shit.
She said the atmosphire is 'Orwellien'
Gave a couple of examples of things that had happened to her that I cant repete as it is to identifying but would shock people
She said middle ranking and even higher up officials are too scared to speakout.