Some young women have no idea of the battles we fought?

[MrsSnippyPants]

I was pondering on this recently, because many of us fighting to stop self ID and the rolling back of women's rights seem to be of a 'certain age', much like the middle-aged nurses who were reported to have stopped Saville having access to patients.

Tonight I was watching 'Madam Secretary' (I do love an American political drama) and in the programme this quote from Susan B Anthony really chimed with me;

"We shall someday be heeded, and when we shall have our amendment to the Constitution of the United States, everybody will think it was always so, just exactly as many young people think that all the privileges, all the freedom, all the enjoyments which woman now possesses always were hers. They have no idea of how every single inch of ground that she stands upon today has been gained by the hard work of some little handful of women of the past."

My daughter, the mother of my granddaughter, gets it, yet my DiL (as yet child free) thinks I am just a dreadful bigot. They are the same age.

What opened your eyes, and what do you think works best to open the eyes of younger women?

I thought feminism had achieved its aims and was all over with. It was having a baby of my own that opened my eyes. (30s, so not exactly “young”).

Becoming a mother.

Babies.
Immensely satisfying and frustrating at the time.

Are young women not out and about as much as we were? I’m 70s-born. At 15 I was out clubbing up town, pissed. I imagine this would trigger a visit from Social Services now. I’ve always been aware of the sexual threat from men because I’ve experienced it many times thus I had no problem understanding the need for privacy etc

I also grew up debating around the kitchen table. There is a lack of critical thinking these days. Do people talk less as they’re on their phones?

What pushed me into full on witch mode was having a kid, though

Yup.

I think age opened my eyes to the oppression I have faced.
Young women today have a whole new set of battles to fight.

Wasn’t there a great twitter hashtag/feed celebrating what older women achieved? If someone could provide a link?

I’m 23 and like PP I’ve grown up sitting around the table in the evenings debating history, future and today’s issues and various other topics.

We’re a family of strong opinions. I do my research and therefore my opinion is always hard to sway.

I’ve also just had my DD, shes 7 weeks old and I already know I want to raise her how I was raised. Strong willed, good work ethic and educated. I want to one day include her in the debates around the table. I want her to learn about the past. Who fought for what and why. Because the ‘why’ is the most important part.

I think for me it was realising that not everyone is the same. And that I didnt necessarily want the things I had thought I wanted when I was in my teens. I didnt want that "traditional" male version of success and i realised that not all women wanted to or could be like men.

How is it relevant that your DIL doesn't have children?

Women don't need to give birth to be able to engage their brains, or to read or study history books, or to be victims and observers of sexism or misogyny.

I didn't say they did Koalaing. It was relevant to the discussion clearly, as some have said having a child made them more aware.

My DiL just thinks we all need to 'be kind' and will brook no discussion on why that might not always be a good idea when people are trying to remove our rights.

My DD was GC before she became a mother.

Koalaing it's relevant because many women, me included, recognised sexism etc when younger but didn't really really think about feminism until we'd had kids. Not that childless women can't be feminists, but that for some of us it's a trigger to think harder.

I have a slightly different perspective on this, which has actually really helped me. I try to change my thinking to 'brilliant, they haven't seen it, they only see the benefits, they only see the rights and this is what we fought for and are still fighting for' This is what we fought for, that they wouldn't need to fight.

And I remember the Dworkin quote about not being able to unsee it once you see it, and I try to be thankful that they've had a whole other day when they didn't see it.

And then I let my inner cynic in for a couple of seconds and remind myself that they will see it one day.

I find that helps me focus on the battle, rather than the lack of foot soldiers beside me. I'm aware this sounds as Pollyanna as fuck, but like I say, it helps my mental health. Also I'm probably very lucky in that I know a lot of young feminists who are really brilliant young women, apart from the kool aid drinking.

It took dv for me to see it.

I was always aware of the sexism and how very unfair life was and privately railed against the injustice, but was socialised not to actually question it. Mumsnet has been unbelievably liberating for me.

My DH has learnt to duck

I don't have children myself, but it's seeing all my friends and family having kids that has opened my eyes to the fact that we still have such a long way to go before we can call ourselves equal to men.

My lovely husband, for instance, was dead keen to have children. No problem, I said. I will do that for you, but I do not want to be a mum or a working parent so you will be at home with said child whilst I go out to work; suddenly, it was not so important to him.....

But the strongest, most intelligent women I know are completely tethered to their roles as mothers whilst their partners lives continue pretty much as before? Men happily shrug off these responsibilities because they know any mother will pick up the pieces rather then let their kids suffer.

Unless this changes, we will never be equal.

The day I actually realised that I'd been groomed and sexually abused. That I wasn't the "real woman" at 13 my abuser convinced me I was.

Seeing first-hand the lengths some men go to to get their sexual and power kicks.

You can explain the evils to some younger people but in general, it all boils down to experience. Either having it or gaining it with age.

It's good to see young women on here realising they have a hell of a battle on their hands - I hope for us all they don't give up.

I get depressed when I think that younger women have an even harder time than women my age had. I don't think all men are bad but those who are have evolved to fight dirtier these days.

There's the #ThankABoomer hashtag on Twitter, but I think there was one woman who collected feminist things together in one thread.

I come across many young people who expect me to be racist, homophobic etc. as I am over 50 (just), whereas I was actually a feminist, lesbian, going to demos, standing on picket lines etc. before they were born.

I think motherhood can be radicalising for many women but it's not the whole picture. There are many mothers who have gone all in for TWAW and arguably it's mostly mothers who are the driving force behind trans kids and drag kids.

I think it must be a variety of factors that lead some women to have their awareness raised and for others to never get there. Sadly 'getting it' is often preceded by a traumatic experience or period in ones life when the stark reality of being female hits home. In other cases it might be professionally related - certain careers are more likely to open eyes to sex based inequality.

Women aren't a hive mind and overall that's a good thing but I also think there is some truth to the idea that acknowledging the depth of world wide misogyny is like opening Pandora's Box. It's painful and many women just don't want to look.

I'm 31. Working as an IDVA in my early 20s opened my eyes. Alot of my peers don't get it but I don't blame them. The culture we all grew up in (90s ladettes, late stage neoliberalism, social media) is communist China levels of brainwashing

What opened my eyes? Having a daughter. Seeing all the shitty "pink glitter" nonsense that was never around for me in the seventies because - why would there be. It was there if you wanted it (in a 70s kinda way) but I didn't. But so much pink stuff . And only pink stuff for girls.
Pink's nice if you like that kind of thing. But it's not the only colour. When did that happen? I'm an older first time mum so never really noticed it. I thought we'd sorted that shit out.
It's really only now there's any pushback starting. Now. In 20 fucking 20.

For me, it is about having young nieces, being invested in their worlds and their futures, and suddenly seeing it all again with fresh eyes.

As a teenager and young woman, I worked in male environments and had to deal with what would now be regarded as institutional sexual harassment and discrimination on a daily basis. The TV series "Life On Mars" wasn't completely made up, you know.

Somehow I managed to climb the promotion ladder. This didn't grant me immunity - just higher ranking harassers and a more subtle form of discrimination - but eventually I was blessed with both ultimate seniority and the invisibility of age. And at that stage, I began to forget how hard it had been. I had equal pay, equal pension rights, equal financial and personal autonomy in every respect, and mistook that for the norm.

Then came Rotherham, Rochdale, Savile, FGM, Grace Millane and now Self ID. I worry about the kind of world my little nieces will have to navigate and so I do what I do for them and for every little girl and young woman who has to deal with daily discrimination and harassment on a scale made even more pernicious by the rise in social media and pornification/dehumanisation of woman. I am aghast that we are still fighting battles I thought had been won long ago and even more annoyed with myself for taking my eye off the ball.

As to what would work best to open the eyes of young women - I think the answer is simply time and experience. They have to come to the realisation themselves. How we can help, though, is to keep shouting that this isn't right, this isn't normal or fair, and to keep reminding them of what "right and fair" looks like, so they can see the blinding obvious.

I used to think that feminists like Julie Burchill and Julie Bindel were quite mad and slightly irritating. Now I realise that they were simply right all along.

I was always a feminist, grew up with DV, but I do remember generally being told in my early 20s by older people in the political party that I was in that as I got older I'd change my views and being very indignant that I wouldn't.

My DiL just thinks we all need to 'be kind' and will brook no discussion on why that might not always be a good idea when people are trying to remove our rights

MrsSnippy
I think one of the things which has happened is the #no debate paradigm. This idea that there is a hierarchy of oppression and its 'victims' require a political agenda which cannot be questioned. Questioning it is proof of bigotry. It seems like your daughter in law from your quote reflects that thinking. It is a consequence of the dominance in education of one political viewpoint and it is an existential threat to freedom of speech and critical thinking.

Found it!

Thank you Kate Long - the feminist #thank a (woman) boomer

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