"Scottish gender change reform to be passed before election"

[Igneococcus]

In the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b41f50bc-542f-11ea-a869-24971f770bf3?shareToken=b642452d257ea2847b971b43d340c7d4

I think we need to see just how much Sturgeon’s position will be weakened by Alex Salmond’s court case next month.
If she is seen to be tarnished but does not resign I think it will be very unlikely that she will push for a universally loathed change in the law surrounding gender. The Scottish elections are next year and she won’t want to damage that as she’s already running a minority government propped up by the greens. Losing seats would be disastrous as they would have to start relying on labour/lib dems and the Tories to get anything through parliament.

It would be interesting to see the outcome of the consultation
They also point out that making a false declaration would be a criminal offence. Give you're declaring how you feel inside, how would they ever prove it was false?

Why are the SNP so dementedly insistent on this? Am I confusing Twatter with the real world and most people aren't that bothered?

Remember David Lewis? Labour then suspended him. Perhaps they didn't believe him, despite 'acceptance without exception'?

And then there's Karen White - aparently 'no true trans'.

They also point out that making a false declaration would be a criminal offence. Give you're declaring how you feel inside, how would they ever prove it was false?

And being done for a false declaration will be such a reassurance for anyone victimised by a man claiming to be a woman to get easy access into female spaces ....

Do people in Scotland know about this 'consultation' & that the SNP is determined allow anyone aged 16 years + to self identify their sex and change their birth certificates accordingly?

refusetobeasheep yes. I assume what they mean is if you're naughty when you're somewhere you wouldn't be if yiu weren't trans, then they'll declare you a fake. So proof after the fact, and proving that true trans people would never do anything naughty (because those that do aren't true trans people)

They also point out that making a false declaration would be a criminal offence

So Kiera Bell and other young women - propelled by ideologues who should have been safeguarding them - affirming that they are in the wrong body and - will be committing a criminal offence if they detransition.

What fucking bellendery is this...

I just had a pending comment deleted under this article and I haven't got a clue what could have caused the deletion. I frequently comment in the Times and usually know to stay within their policy.

If the snp do well at the next SP election they will feel they have a mandate for a new referendum. It amazes me they would do anything that might deter voters. Probably hoping it won't be an issue then - get the changes in before the campaigning starts.
Not everyone in the SNP supports this. Maybe sense will be seen.

That's an excellent point. What about detransitioners? Have TRAs found a way to have them punished under the law for their disloyalty to the gender cause?

SNP consultation - oxymoron

Applicants would have to confirm that they intend to live permanently in their acquired gender

It will be a criminal offence to make a false statutory declaration in relation to gender recognition and to make a false application for gender recognition.

What is the definition of 'live permanently in their acquired gender'?

How could it be proven that someone had made a false declaration about this?

If a man declares that he intends to 'live permanently' as a woman, and then rapes a woman, did he make a false declaration?

If a woman declares that she intends to 'live permanently' as a man, and then gets pregnant and gives birth, did she make a false declaration?

If someone declares that they intend to 'live permanently' as the opposite sex and then realises they have made a mistake and wants to detransition, did they make a false declaration?

Without clear and unambigious answers to these questions, it would be absurd to pass a law about self declaration of legally recognised sex.

They are saying the law will have the answers when in Maya's case a judge (well, a little one) was so hesitant they were too afraid to say that believing sex cannot be changed is a reasonable belief.

There was a brilliant news program on Scottish TV last night which had a lot of gender critical voices on it. Worth watching for the Scottish Government minister's expression alone. They are really not enjoying the sunlight being shone on how bonkers this is.

I posted details of the program on this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3828698-Scotland-Tonight-on-Self-id-featuring-GC-voices

Hypothetically could I go and rent a house in Scotland, do my 6 months, get a certificate, move back to England and it be valid?

Yes. I'm not even sure it would need to be that long.

Could people who had their births registered in Scotland & now live elsewhere in the UK apply under these new proposed sex self-id rules?

Why is how this would potentially impact on English people being discussed?
I'm watching SA S just now. No answer re fear of male bodied people in female spaces.
Interesting she thinks it will be around 250 people who will apply per year. And yet we already have toilets etc being opened up to men. The impact goes far beyond the legislation.

Tombakersscarf because it has serious implications for how such a process will be handled. We are being told only a very small number of people will need a GRC, and yet if anyone from anywhere can access a GRC and change their sex marker on the birth certificate, then it's clearly not going to be confined to a tiny number of people as the Scottish government keep telling us.

Why is how this would potentially impact on English people being discussed?

The potential impact is for everyone living in the UK or born in Scotland.

Well yes, but it will affect us first. Just seemed an odd approach (probably not so many Scottish posters on here).
The Scotland tonight documentary linked to on a other thread is very good on this, can be watched online too.

I may also have thought I was posting on the Scotland Tonight thread 🤦‍♀️

The questions arent in anyway meant to minimise the immediate impact to women & chidren living in Scotland.
People throughout the UK need to engage though & take part in the consultation not just in solidarity with those living in Scotland but because it will also impact everyone.

No doubt transactivists have promomoted the Scottish government consultation widely as anyone in the world can take part.

ForWomenScotland have links & guidance: forwomen.scot/

"The Government wants to know what you think about their Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. This is our Quick and Easy Guide to filling out the consultation form. A downloadable version is available here. The deadline for responding is 17 March 2020.

First a little bit of background summarised from the 195 page consultation paper…

The current situation:
At the moment, a person over the age of 18 can change their legal sex if they have been diagnosed with a rare medical condition called gender dysphoria. This involves two doctor reports, documents (eg. utility bills) showing two years ‘living in role’, and costs £140 (which is means tested). A Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) is then issued which permits a birth certificate to be reissued in the opposite sex.

What the Government wants to do:
Remove the requirement for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and make a person’s sex a matter of self-declaration. Anyone, from the age of 16, will be able to sign a declaration stating they have “lived in the acquired gender” for the previous 3 months. There may be a small fee to lodge this document with the Registrar office. No medical treatment, no outward change in appearance or even a name change will be required. After a further 3 month “reflection period” a GRC will be issued, along with a new birth certificate in the opposite sex." (continues)

You can add your response to the consultation via this link consult.gov.scot/family-law/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/

Doesn't matter if you live in Scotland or not as far as I know. For other nationalities the concern is that this becomes common place and sets a precedent.

Deadline is 17 March.