Jon Ronson is so anti GC now

[Doyoumind]

I have been a fan of Jon Ronson for a long time. We're talking 25 years or so. I know not everyone knows who he is, though he's been mentioned on here before.

I always thought of him as a sensible and fair person. I started having doubts around the whole porn thing but he doesn't come down definitively for or against it.

Previously he didn't want to discuss the issues around trans and women's rights. Lately, since his spat with previous friend Glinner, he has become very, very anti GC and rigid in his stance. He won't engage in any debate and follows and interacts with a lot of TRAs on Twitter.

I can't understand where he is coming from. It feels like he has picked his side and is going to stick with it whatever anyone says, where usually, as a journalist, he is quite balanced and fair, a bit like Louis Theroux.

I wonder if part if it is because he now lives in America where the debate is very much positioned as between the Left and the Right. If he was here more, would he feel differently?

I think I'm going to unfollow him on Twitter because I'm starting to really dislike him for not even investigating fully before joining in with the condemnation of GC feminists.

But yep, as PP have said, if you are very close to a transperson, you do feel that the movement is an attack on them as an individual

This has been constructed, ie, ‘You’re erasing us! You want trans people to stop existing’ ‘Trans lives are not a debate’.

Weirdly, it reminds me of group critiques on the Goldsmiths art course, where people would try and avoid having their artwork criticised by making it super personal in content, or insisting that they were doing whatever they were doing purely for their own benefit (bit like wanking).

It must all stem from the same PoMo texts.

OP “ I wonder if part if it is because he now lives in America where the debate is very much positioned as between the Left and the Right. If he was here more, would he feel differently?”

I wonder this too. It seems that self ID and LGB have all been lumped together in the USA, unless I’ve misunderstood.

It seems that self ID and LGB have all been lumped together in the USA, unless I’ve misunderstood.

^THIS

As a bisexual woman the latest ideation of gay liberation seems to be straight 'allies' kicking me out of the LGB umberella for wrong think.

DJ, so depressing isn’t it. It all just goes back to how much men hate us and I guess I knew that but now seeing it even more. And I admit, until a few years ago, I was someone who thought gay men weren’t like that.

Every right-on person I know in the US is incredibly pro-TWAW. It's so bound up with Trump vs good, left vs right. And I'd wager the US is far more homophobic than here so there's a good dose of reacting against that too.

‘You’re erasing us! You want trans people to stop existing’ ‘Trans lives are not a debate’.

That always strikes me as the most classic example of DARVO.

No GC women want to erase trans people, trans identities, or trans freedoms. We're all completely on board, when it comes to anyone adopting whatever gender norms and roles make them happy.

Women are being erased here. Literally. The openly avowed intention is to alter the definition altogether, to include men. We would no longer exist as a definable class of people.

The sheer nerve of this one is breathtaking.

He tweeted this and I found myself wondering if there was a tiny chink of doubt in his mind, perhaps related to the dissonance between what he expected of Graham and what actually happened. Might not be that at all, but it amazes me people don't look at what’s happening and wonder at all the rational people suddenly getting weird.

twitter.com/jonronson/status/1229047753747128320?s=21

He also posted the link below. I can’t see anything but the abstract so I can’t comment on how rigorous the research is. Given incidents are rare, it would either take a very long time, or a massive area covered to ascertain whether the risks were significantly raised. But if he is being sent studies like this, then he may consider himself to still be wholly rational. Indeed, he might be, if he hasn’t investigated other areas of research. We’ve always said it wasn’t just about toilets.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/in-the-news/no-link-between-trans-inclusive-policies-and-bathroom-safety-study-finds/

Ah, that’s a bit of good news.

wellbehavedwomen I like your description of America. I lived in Canada in the early 1970s as a young woman and remember how much was based on how one looked, while everyone was trying desperately to be an individual.

When a candidate for a labour leader is saying put rapists in women’s prisons because, sad face, damn right it deserves scrutiny.

It’s hard to admit you might be wrong, with all those eyes on you. He must be starting to peak.

I wondered if the ‘it’ that needs scrutinising is the amount of wrongthink going on on Graham’s twitter feed and elsewhere.

I don't think he's coming back from this. As I said, he follows, likes and engages with some of the most ardent TRAs now. I've ended up on some Twitter profiles of TRAs I wasn't even familiar with and was surprised to be told by Twitter that JR follows them. He's entered into an echo chamber.

Ron Johnson is still very much opposed to self-ID.

Great post, @wellbehavedwoman. You sum up the situation in the US (where I live) very well. The trans ideology is orthodoxy here, absolutely no-one questions it apart from Christian types who think along the lines of 'God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!!!' and similar nonsense. Homophobes and the like who believe that all gays are paedophiles etc No-one on the left wants to be associated with that kind of thinking so gender critical voices are few and far between.

The power of cognitive dissonance.

If he has a trans loved one then of course that affects how he sees things

I do too but am hugely gender critical.

Yes, he's Jewish but he genuinely did buy a load of Tamiflu.

I don't think he has a trans loved one.

Stonewall is a hangover from the 90s, a dinosaur that has outlived its usefulness - no one knows who it is for, or what it's goals and mission statement might be, especially not the people who work there - sad to see a formerly great organisation lose its way so badly

From your OP and thank you for explaining as I have heard his name and that's it!

You say big mates glinner.
Had big row.
Fell out.

With that info sounds like that's why. The end. Sulking/ fuck you/ I'm right you're wrong. That's all.

I think on the American side remember also if you lean right that means you support no parental pay for mums and the absolute banning abortion - it’s a no win situation for feminists. These two seems like base tenets of an equal society to me, I could never support them. And with roe v wade under extreme threat in the Supreme Court, it’s a tense and emotional time for many people.

"gender critical" is and always has been a thin veil for transphobia
...when the definition of 'transphobia' is so far reaching it includes pointing out that humans can't change sex.

Anyone who thinks large numbers of children wanting to spend their lives taking hormones and having surgery to try and look like the opposite sex is accused of transphobia now though. The word is meaningless. All gender critical people are accused of transphobia. I know very few people who hate or are scared of transpeople. Transphobia is just a word used to try and shut down debate like "you smell"

I think "you smell" is the highest level of debate that some posters can aspire to.