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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What can courts legally do if someone refuses to use preferred pronouns?

61 replies

GeordieTerf · 16/02/2020 00:40

I've just watched Posie's latest video, and she discusses Scottow's case. Posie mentions that Scottow was instructed to use female pronouns for Stephanie Hayden, which she did. However, Posie says that if it was her, she would refuse. I know that other women, such as Maria, had also been told to do this.

I don't think it's come up yet, but what could the courts legally do if someone refused to do this?

OP posts:
Pulpfiction1 · 16/02/2020 19:14

Where do you draw the line. So you have Blair White sat oppersite you, there an insistence you refer to them as her - I can get on board with that and it would be weird not too.
But what if you have a man looking and dressing like Phil Mitchell, but still claims is a woman and wants to be refered to as she. Is that OK? Doesn't feel OK to me. Feels like Phil is taking the piss out of everyone in the room.

Bananabixfloof · 16/02/2020 19:21

So really absolutely anything at all could be classed as a hate incident if anyone perceives it as such

Yup, and a person can even report a hate incident for someone else. Without the original target knowing anything about the incident.
Can't see any problems there can you?
Quick quick look over there, nothing happening here.

TildaKauskumholm · 16/02/2020 19:27

Agree, if I was absolutely forced to, in fear of losing my job/being prosecuted for it, I would use the person's 'chosen' name, repeatedly. Nothing on earth could make me do otherwise.

theunknownknown · 16/02/2020 19:37

A Hate Incident is any non-crime incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity or perceived disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity

But is this a legal definition? If so, how did gender identity creep in? Or am I reading this too simplistically from the perspective of self-id?

KenDodd · 16/02/2020 19:47

Didn't one of Karen White's victims refuse to use 'she' or refer to 'her penis' in court? I think she may have been unable to get criminal injuries compensation as a result?
I'm not at all sure about this though so might have it wrong.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 16/02/2020 19:55

So really absolutely anything at all could be classed as a hate incident if anyone perceives it as such.

Except if it’s against women and girls of course. Physical or sexual violence against women and girls isn’t a hate crime - unless you are male - in which case words - which include biological facts - constitute a hate crime.

Simples - equality under the law..

ThinEndoftheWedge · 16/02/2020 19:58

Didn't one of Karen White's victims refuse to use 'she' or refer to 'her penis' in court? I think she may have been unable to get criminal injuries compensation as a result?
I'm not at all sure about this though so might have it wrong

If someone could clarify I would be grateful. This is utterly dystopian.

This bullshit lead directly to the sexual assaults of the women in the first place and then to compound it by enforcing untruths such as ‘her penis’ is legislated gaslighting.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 16/02/2020 20:06

What about using 'they'? I've always used 'they' when I want to disguise the sex of the person I'm talking about, e.g. "Someone just came up to me & they said...".

BritneyPeedOnALadybug · 16/02/2020 20:10

Didn't one of Karen White's victims refuse to use 'she' or refer to 'her penis' in court? I think she may have been unable to get criminal injuries compensation as a result?

Would like some clarification on this also. It’s one (horrific) thing to be punished via court for not going along with what you consider an untruth but it takes a whole more sinister turn if actively not telling an untruth but not getting involved either way is punishable too.

ToeStubber · 16/02/2020 20:12

Ridiculous to force someone to lie under oath. We aren’t stupid. And it pisses me off that attacks on women for being female is not a hate crime. But calling a man in a dress just that is, apparently. It’s ridiculous and shows that women are viewed as lesser.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 16/02/2020 21:50

The quote I took was from West Yorkshire Police's website. I don't know if it's precisely the wording in law. I've looked, but can't find anything that is clearly relating to 'incidents' as opposed to crimes. It all seems a bit vague - I suppose the only thing to do is keep your head down and not say anything to anyone, ever!

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