Maya's case, #expelme, my case against Girlguiding and a Court of Precedent!

[KatieAlcock]

Bear with me as I'm very much not a legal expert and I really hope that my solicitor isn't going to tell me I've written something wrong! This is an update on my case against Girlguiding for expelling me (see what I did there) for my beliefs that men and boys cannot change into girls and women.

Wheels turning slowly in the background

I've been waiting... and waiting... and waiting to be able to give you all an update. I can finally tell you something but it's still not a finished story!

Maya Forstater, who has been appealing her dismissal on grounds of her gender critical beliefs, lost her case against her employers but has now lodged an appeal (Mumnet link rather than her funding link for safety's sake: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3805218-Maya-appealing )

You probably don't know the ins and outs but the Employment Tribunal is not what's called a "binding precedent" - another court can independently come to a different decision. So, though this decision is indicative, it's not binding over the court my case would be held in.

After Maya lost her case, Girlguiding told us that since my belief case is so similar to hers, we should withdraw my case. We declined to do so; because Maya is appealing her appeal will be held in a higher court than my case. This means that if Maya's appeal is successful, it is binding to the court that my case would be held in.

Confused? I am as well but Maya's appeal is really hopeful both for her obviously, but also for my case.

This is going to be a long haul, though. Maya's appeal is some way off and we can't make any firm plans for my case till after that. Please share, Tweet, anything you can think of - please do use the hashtag #expelme

I have also asked again if Girlguiding will allow me to accompany my daughter to meetings, outings and sleepovers, and they have again not made any concession. This is massively disappointing to me and to my daughter, and is obviously extremely hard to explain to her and to her friends and their parents.

As an aside it was SO GOOD to meet so many of you at the WPUK meeting, including some current and former Guiding people.

Oh yes indeed, as well as those who don't have a protected characteristic (victims of sexual assault for example, or girls who are in foster care and whose social worker says they must not share accommodation with a male) but who are still vulnerable.

Well done Katie! & thank you for doing this.

Do you mean that you have to wait for maya's appeal until your case can be heard? Even though you both describe yourselves as gcf's your your statements of belief won't be exactly the same, so isnt it possible that yours would be judged to meet the criteria even if maya's fails or vice versa? Is it the courts or your own legal team who have said that your case should follow maya's (if I have understood that right)?

I will dig again soon...

That is basically it @manderley, including the waiting.
The courts would probably hear my case now but the legal eagles think it's better to wait.

Thank you for the update & THANK YOU

My daughters will not be GGs until I can be assured that GG understand safeguarding

Good luck with this.

Also - that medium article on children's understanding of sex is great, Katie, and thanks for sharing it, GrinitchSpinach.

Thank you so much for this. We need women brave enough to put their heads above the parapet if women are to have a hope in hell of retaining our rights. More grateful and admiring than I have words to convey.

Well done, and thank you, Katie. Hoping by the time my wee Rainbow gets to Guides, all of this will be a murky part of the past. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

Thanks for standing up to this, Katie. Bringing a case against an employer / organisation is so stressful and all consuming, you are brave and absolutely doing the right thing.

Well done Katie, and good luck

Yes you should write to the Queen! Sometimes the Tsar would respond to personal appeals from Russian peasants so there is a precedent.

On a more serious note, what you are doing is so brave (and stunning!) well done for standing up for girls.

Thanks for the update Kate and Thank You for persevering.

We need you to win. I can't believe I'm praying to a god I don't believe in, to make a court agree with something that is based in science.

The world is mad.

Thank you. I am inspired by all the brave women and girls who are taking these cases to court.

How the sunlight breaks through.

Thank you all for your lovely words.

I'm looking forward to 13 which is not such an unlucky number, I don't think.

Just for your information Kate. 😁

The number 13 is considered unlucky in the western world, but not so in Chinese. Quite the opposite, the number 13 is considered lucky by the Chinese people. ... If the sound of a particular number is associated with a happy, positive word, it is considered lucky, and the opposite is also true.

So it’s doubly important for you to win this, so we can all think of 13 as a lucky number. 😁