Woman's Hour (Tuesday 11th) and porn

[AbsintheFriends]

Is anyone listening?

I haven't been paying close attention, but Jane Garvey interviewed a couple (young instagram influencer types) about a book they've written about marriage, and negotiating the tricky bits of life with young children etc etc.

Porn came up, and I heard the woman say that she'd tried to watch it with her husband - 'I thought it would be good if we had a hobby to do together, and that this might be a good one' but it was a disaster as it made her feel inadequate and inferior to the perfect women on the screen. 'Like an amateur footballer trying to play for England'. Her husband just hmmm-ed patronisingly and non-committally, and agreed it was a problem.

Jane Garvey applauds their bravery in talking about this. The statistic of 3 out of 4 British men watching porn is mentioned, and (unless I'm projecting) the implication seems to be that this is problematic because that's an awful lot of men having to close their eyes and think of Candi Loveflaps (made up pornstar) whilst in bed with their inferior, inadequate, real wives. Poor lambs.

I find I am too angry to finish my toast. Did anyone else hear it? Am I overreacting and being unreasonable in wishing Jane Garvey had been a bit more challenging? (And raised the point that a long and happy marriage might be helped by the man respecting women enough not to fucking use porn, rather than the women doing the mental labour of reconciling herself to it... )

Agree with that last paragraph especially.

#pornisforwankers

At pushing 50 I'm obviously ancient and grew up in the analogue age of the dinosaurs where porn meant a dog-eared copy of Playboy under the mattress, but how did we get to this place in the space of such a very few years? That it's become SO mainstream that it's taken for granted that the vast majority of men are OBVIOUSLY going to use it?

Why are the many, many problems with this not being raised EVERY time the subject comes up?? Like they would if someone was talking about their partner knocking back a couple of vodkas at breakfast or snorting coke from the steering wheel on the school run?

...but how did we get to this place in the space of such a very few years?

You need to watch The Deuce

First wave porn was literature. Second wave was photography. We're well past the third wave (video) and into fourth wave real-time interactive via social media.

Only waiting for the sex robots. The sex robots are coming, in a manner of speaking.

You need to watch The Deuce

Oh arses, it's going to put me in a blind fury for the next 3 weeks, isn't it?

Porn and Self-ID. I genuinely despair about the world I am sending my daughters into.

I heard it in the car, couldn't believe my ears.

After much shouting at the radio I had to turn it off. Porn as a joint fucking hobby? What the actual? I'm still raging

What an annoying couple and a very poor show from Garvey on the porn question.

Is it just mean or does Garvey default to progressive and uncritical mode when interviewing progressive people?

just mean

Oh god I won't bring myself to listen. What a shitshow it sounds.

We're just being gaslit left right and centre about porn. Radio 5 live has been far superior on women's rights this week.

It may be that the arrangement was not that it was supposed to be too hard-hitting an interview. In some cases I think that's fair, in this type of situation, you basically have regular people, even if they've written a book, who are sharing something rather personal. I guess I think it requires a little bit of discretion or sensitivity to talk to people about some topics, or it can end up going badly in an entirely different way where you really upset the people you are talking to. That's probably a difficult line to walk sometimes.

On the other hand, it is often the case that interviewers don't ask the significant questions when people are basically in agreement with their own opinions. It's as if they think it's all obvious

What I often would like to see in this kind of situation though is efforts by the presenter or show to follow up the topic in a way where they can explore some of those questions more deeply.

These ‘progressive people’ struck me as profoundly conventional people who imagine they are able to offer profound insights to other such people about their equally conventional lives.

All delivered with maximum smugness.

Oh god, imagine being stuck at a middle-class dinner party with them boring on all night.

My husband has a massive porn habit but IT’S OKAY BECAUSE I EARN MORE MONEY THAN HIM!

My husband has a massive porn habit but IT’S OKAY BECAUSE I EARN MORE MONEY THAN HIM!

And he also has... A BEARD! So it is a hipster, wokebro sustainably-sourced artisan porn habit! Yay - so progressive!

Goosefoot I take your point, but I do think that WH has a very clear mandate to speak from a woman-centred perspective. I wouldn't have wanted JG to use a book-promotion interview as a platform for a debate about the ethics of porn, but it would have been perfectly appropriate for her to question of why the woman (who had just given birth) found herself trying to accommodate his porn use, rather than him reconsidering it, as he knew it made her feel inferior and inadequate. JG is good at lighthearted but pithy remarks and I think it was poor that this was allowed to pass unchallenged.

Haven't heard it and don't want to.

Am appalled, especially when the bbc published this report this week:

www.bbc.com/news/amp/stories-51391981#click=t.co/byZ1BdrP8v

Here's the link, for anyone who wants to go there. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000f5g6
Interview starts at 9.10 minutes in, porn discussion starts at about 16.30 minutes.

Wokebro has spoken to a feminist porn director, so it's all ok. (I was joking before about sustainably-sourced, but actually that seems to be exactly what he's claiming 🙄) I've just listened again and he does say that The Stats (he's keen on those) suggest that porn is bad for LTRs (as Bob says above) but he doesn't take that any further. I guess the implication is that women should just work harder to overcome their 'hurt'.

It's so sad she was so cool with it! I don't listen loads but it was on so I kept listening wish I hadn't bothered. He gave me rage

i couldn't believe my ears. when we've just had news about a 14 year old's rape being put on porn hub.

I listened to this on the WH podcast tonight and was seriously irritated by the amount of air time HE got in general. It's Woman's Hour and yet he interjected, spoke over and interrupted both women over and over again and they let him. Nothing he said was challenged and everything he said was agreed with. Such an odd interview and so so so lacking in any feminist perspective or challenge. Felt quite let down by JG.

He clearly thought he was oh so cool, talking about what he and his 'mates' chat about in their WhatsApp groups and how they discuss porn and what they've watched. All while acknowledging that his wife and friends were simultaneously discussing their hurt and feelings of rejection, their health concerns and teir challenges in their roles as new mothers. He thinks he's cool, but he came across as an arse.

I also found the whole thing about how having a FB profile pic of your kids means your relationship has been neglected, and that putting your kids first is the worst thing you can do to your relationship a bit jarring. Newsflash - grown ups can understand that the kids come first for a couple of years and that team work is key. I think they had got hold of snippets of various sources of info and research and just chucked them all together to draw not very insightful or cohesive answers.

I won't be reading the book

You know when couples make a big thing of how totally strong their relationship is, just before they announce a split? I’m wondering if this is the ‘book deal’ variant.

"I talked about porn on women's hour"

I can imagine the banter with mates.

WH were used.

The Deuce is excellent. Really superb, it's by the creators of The Wire.

This sort of thing is why I don't listen to Women's Hour anymore.

most studies found porn use in LTR harmful

Does anybody have a reference please - or more of description so that I can locate it?

WH were used.

Possibly extending their audience outreach to the "cool wives"?

I doubt very much Jane Garvey has ever watched any of it. If she has done she might feel differently. This right on wokeness drives me crazy. No one will speak the truth or use common sense. We are all being brainwashed.