How many women are actually aware of misogyny?

[FleecyMoo]

Am I alone in being repeatedly shocked by encounters with women who don't realise (or perhaps don't want to acknowledge?) that misogyny is a thing? I am a lurker on another predominately female forum and there's a current thread on there where some women appear to be saying that misogyny is just a 'fashionable word' these days but that the concept itself was all over and done with after the 1970's.

Personally, I think that misogynistic views aired in public i.e. online are more overt these days after a bit of a lull where it was somewhat quietened down in public.What makes some women able to see it but not others though?

I'm no academic or activist but I feel so frustrated that women are collaborating in their own oppression and would like suggestions on how I could illumine what's really happening so that mild-mannered, middle-class, middle-aged women like me could help raise awareness?

I believe misogny is not limited to only the males of this world. I firmly believe that many women are misognistic without even realising it.

To those who want to keep claiming they have never been discriminated against or met any women who has been discriminated against -- look at the reports from women and girls about street harassment:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45942447

Who is it aimed at, and who is doing it?

..Of course, alternative is just believing that most women and girls are liars, or they deserve what they get by being out in the first place..............

I get what you're saying, I know sexism exists, just because it hasn't happened to me or people I know much I know it happens. I just think you're exaggerating the scale of it. I think some men are shit but I don't think we're all oppressed under the patricarchy or that every shit thing that happens to a woman is due to misogyny.

Why am I feeling like I'm 17 again, being the only feminist in my class, and all the other girls claiming it is all okay, it's just me seeing this, making a fuss................

I just think you're exaggerating the scale of it.

Not your Nigel then?

I just think you're exaggerating the scale of it.
So, what percentage of women and girls surveyed do you think are liars, 'cos that's what it boils down to!

Indeed, you could flag up your refusal to believe women and girls as a prime example of sexism in and of itself................

Oh, I understand it perfectly, the refusal to see that things really are that bad for so many women and girls, and that there are so many men and boys doing it, not the odd nasty person, no must be an exaggeration because once you admit the sheer scale of the issue, your whole world changes......................

I think this is an example of how ingrained misogyny is. Male athletes are shocked when asked the same questions often asked if female athletes.

Women are socialised to accept and participate in misogyny and to reject feminism.

Many women who do object to the status quo in their social circles are shamed with accusations of 'being all woke' and they often feel the need to start objections to sexism with 'I'm not a feminist, but..'.

Society rewards women who support the patriarchy and punishes those who don't. It's understandable that many women (especially those in heterosexual relationships) wouldn't feel the need for feminism and might see it as a threat to their happiness.

I didn't see it until I had my kids. Then I came to mumsnet, then to FWR, then it was like a flood gate opened. I look back through my life and see it at every stage. From my father who bullied me my whole childhood for not being feminine, the girls at school who bullied me about not wearing make up or shaving my legs, the extreme eating disorder I developed as a teenager which resulted in a huge amount of positive social feedback despite the fact I was so thin I almost had to be hospitalised. Being sexually harrassed at the bus stop by older men at 13. Watching my friend have a breakdown after being raped by one of our classmates at 15 - of course, she was socially ostracised by almost everyone and declared a lier. Being sexually harrassed by my boss at 17, who actually tried to withhold my pay because I wouldn't send him dirty pics. My ex who used to police every item of clothing I wore, forbid me to speak to other men, told me my female friends were sluts who would lead me to cheat. Almost every relationship I've ever had has involved a man trying to exploit me in some way, either through financial, sexual, or domestic labour. Every male boss I've ever had has tried to bully, harass, or patronise me in some way. Even my fucking landlord will come over and address all his questions to my partner as if I don't exist! And I honesly can count on one hand the number of women I know who have never shared any of those experiences. And those are just a few things, I coils give hundreds more examples. But even then, even then I couldn't see it. Because I thought it was about me. Me being shit, me being unlikeable, me being a pushover, me doing something to attract this behaviour. Once I learned about the idea of power structures, and started to analyse the world through a feminist frame work, I realised it wasn't just people being terrible to me, it was men being terrible to women, and other women facilitating it.

To the posters who say they've never experienced misogyny - you're wrong. You might not be able to see it, but it's there. Have you ever been to see a male doctor about your new baby/ post partum pain? I used to work with GPS as a medical student who would be lovely to these patients faces, then as soon as they were gone tell me to disregard everything they'd just said because they had "new-mum-itis". I've worked with male med students who rated all their female patients from that day on fuckability. These men are out there now, practising medicine, all over the country. That lovely doc you saw last week could very well be rating you out of ten while you talk, or mentally dismissing all your symptoms because you're pregnant /menooausal/ menstruating. Misogyny is coming at you all day every day even if you can't see it.

God, why does the app hate paragraphs so much?!

This is quite unthreatening to share with people, The hard facts about female portrayals with a father and daughter freakonomics.com/podcast/princess/
Geena Davis says she brought the facts to the studios and says they were shocked to see the ratios in black and white.

One anecdote on female representation for you. This is a 2002 movie with almost all male cast m.imdb.com/title/tt0268380/?ref_=m_ttfc_tt
It really shocked me. More so that this is the movie Ice Age that I’d enjoyed with my impressionable kids and I’d not realised how few female characters were in it, and how little effort it would have been to include females. It’s a compete work of fantasy. There’s one potential breeding pair, any other character could have been either sex.

Being sexually harrassed at the bus stop by older men at 13.
This! Being flashed at on the way to school, and not being able to ask, even then, why this happened to girls, and not boys? Why does this keep happening? And perhaps more importantly, can we do anything about it? Because if you believe it's just life, that some chaps just are like that and the best we can is catch them as soon as possible, then you are stuck. If you believe the lie that it's your fault for looking attractive/wearing a short skirt/being female in a public place, then you are stuck. If you realise this is going on, but no one else seems to care/be worried then you are stuck. I can still remember, the absolute joy at 17 to discover it wasn't just me, that a thing called feminism existed.

And we just have to keep talking about that, keep saying that things can and have changed, that our voices matter, and to girls that they're not alone, it isn't just them. We have to keep buggering on!

Yep, default human is male, so is default mammoth/sabre tooth/extinct species of your choice...................

And I was still shocked t'other week to see an (almost) all female line-up on QI.

I try so hard not to "default male" everything but it's so hard. Even with my best efforts my 3 year old already says "hello Mr squirrel/ tree/ duck" etc when we're at the park. "he/him" have almost become gender neutral pronouns at this point.

Why am I feeling like I'm 17 again, being the only feminist in my class, and all the other girls claiming it is all okay, it's just me seeing this, making a fuss................

Ahh I wish I had been so aware at 17. Mind, now that I have seen it, I cannot unsee it, so not sure if I would have been happy with that when younger. Tbh, it scares me a bit now and I simply cannot understand, at all how sme women think everything is great for other women. Despite, being in that camp until very recently. Now I have seen it, its impossible to unsee. Only way I can put it!

Being sexually harrassed at the bus stop by older men at 13
Yes this too. I was actually groped when I was 11 by a random guy in the street who was apparently impressed that I was 'turning into a woman already' and growing tits, so impressed he had to touch me

But even then, with stuff like that I kind of rationalised it to a degree. It was scary as fuck, turning 11 and realising that these grown men will treat me..'differently', and they did, forever more. BUT in my head it was 'just the perverts', nothing to worry about, most men are lovely, etc.

So I knew that girls were treat differently, and pretty shitty, yet managed to convince myself it was only a few guys and NAMALT! and such.

I agree it's because it's so engrained and because you only see it when you start thinking about feminism or encounter it and understand it for what it is. Once you've seen it, you do start noticing quite how prevalent it is. I know lots of my peers (40s) who wouldn't worry about it, never mind young women.

I think we don't see it because it's so prevalent it's 'normal'
I think we don't see it because then we would see where even our nearest and dearest, men and women, are misogynistic sometimes. Even ourselves. Even if only in the language that we don't even realise embodies it.
I think we don't see it because it changes our view of the world and ourselves when we do see it.
But when we see it, we can't not see it.

If my DD at 16 has been able to see it for a few years then I suggest those who can see it look a bit harder and listen.
It seems to me it's getting worse again maybe being older and invisible men are less guarded in what they say to each other.

“Women are socialised to accept and participate in misogyny and to reject feminism. “

I used to play at getting my brother’s action man to attack my sindy doll.....

Doing the Bechdel test on films was quite illuminating.

you see it and hear it everyday. rude catcalling in public like your a lower form of life . Have you ever seen girls catting guys.

i only date men that respect me

I think it's so ingrained into everyday life, that a lot of people can't pick it out. Any woman that says she has never been treated differently because she is a woman, is either closing her eyes to it, or actually can't distinguish the little, everyday, misogynistic acts, not just from men, but also from other woman.