Attacks on Glinner on MN today - clearly his 2 articles today have been effective!

[xxyzz]

Lots of attempts to shoot the messenger today.

Thanks, Glinner for both articles, which are clear and helpful introductions to the issues to those new to the topic.

Thanks for writing them, donating your fee to WPUK and for all the shit you've taken for supporting women.

I haven't actually posted on a Glinner related thread for a long, long time, but I have my limits and a special extra thread designed to have a pop at feminists doing feminist critique on a feminist board, of the attention a man is getting for saying all the things women have been saying, was a bit too much.

Sour grapes? Are we being bitter feminists, perchance? Never, ever heard that before.

Do seem to be a lot of people keen to divide feminists, tonight.

Just sayin'.

Can't think why. Or who it benefits.

Could it be...?

No, it's gone. So strange.

There are three threads on glinner

I haven’t posted on the first two, seems to be fairly equal in the ‘yay/boo glinner‘ posts and people are entitled to their opinion

But i agree with poota an additional thread purely to have a pop at women doing feminism wrong is poor form in my opinion

Yes, I am Suzie Green and I have Harrop next to me dictating copy. Jesus.

Feminists are not lock step conformists. We have disagreements. Please, if you have a legitimate reason why a feminist should not object to Glinner being our spokesperson in a national paper, like Hayton before him, then lay your feminist reasoning on me. But insinuating that the reason some of us are not on board with the Glinner love is because we're TRAs is just as cultish as transactivists.

Thanks Rufus. I admit, I'm tetchy. Must be the rattling windows from the storm outside.

Pooka has a point for sure

Are men not able to be feminists, then?

I welcome a supportive man's voice. Feminism shouldn't be pitching women against men for fucks sake. What a fucking own goal if we implode because a man speaks up for us

If there is a woman published saying the same, by all means highlight her. As we did when JKR did. As we do with various other women.

Glinner is not 'our spokesperson', he's just a bloke who wrote a couple of good articles today that will have introduced GC feminism to a new audience.

If he doesn't do it for you, fine.

I thought the articles were rather good.

I don't really see any difference in the way people treat articles from men or women. Some like them, some don't. Some swoon, some don't. The idea that people weren't swooning over JKR is bizarre to me, there were pages of fangirl swooning, people planning to buy her books, etc.

I really can't credit the claim that people give more time or consideration to men as a group. If people like Glinner, I think it's because they seem him as giving a lot of himself to this particular issue, even when it was total heresy and no one was talking about it in public, and also I suspect because people just like him.

The articles themselves are relevant to discussion of women's issues, as is the public response to them.

"Men should speak up for women, but they never do".
Man speaks up for women.
"Why should we praise man who speaks up for women?"

Whatever. I've not got the patience to go a few rounds on the reasons why, no, men can't be feminists, and why feminism is all about women and why 'GC feminism' is a ridiculous tautology, so I'll leave you to have those discussions amongst yourselves.

I've had a busy weekend and haven't yet had the chance to see what Glinner has written. Whatever it is, I'm pretty sure that I'll be grateful for it, so thank you Graham.

I admit to being predisposed to liking anyone with the genius to write Father Ted AND Black Books AND the IT Crowd. Any one of those would be enough to retire on, smug.

To write all three AND have time to fight for the rights of a whole bunch of people you're not one of. Pretty damned impressive.

And no, before someone wilfully misinterprets me, that doesn't mean that lots of women aren't also pretty damn impressive!

Cool. Well thanks for being angry then not being arsed to explain why, that really helps drive things forward, pooter.

Anyhoo. I was really impressed by the article. I thought it was clear and hard to argue with. Sadly, I see many of my friends on Facebook think he's the devil incarnate.

fridge

I thought poota explained quite well why she was ‘tetchy’ in her posts of 22:11 and 22:21

Im back off to my book so not ignoring the thread

Have a good night all

Do seem to be a lot of people keen to divide feminists, tonight

You ok hun?

Are men not able to be feminists, then?
No, men cannot be feminists. Men can, however be allies. Bit if you read the numerous threads about the subject in here you'll see that is not the case here.

OP - You need to take a step back and remember that other women may have more information than you or different experiences to you and as a result a wildly different opinion of a man you only know by his writing.

If you want to discuss that further then do it on the thread in question rather than starting a TAAT to make insinuations that will goad those women you disagree with.

Oh and before you embarrass yourself with continued insinuations that women who happen to disagree with you are TRA socks, maybe you want to advance search some usernames.

It is very good advice to "Advance Search" a User Name.

For example, anyone reading this thread might assume from the discussion that it refers to two threads previously posted in praise of Graham Linehan and that the OPs in both cases are long-time members of Mumsnet.

That is not the case.

Mumsnet has taken down one of those threads "to look at it". The OP in that case was (apparently) a first-time poster on Mumsnet. (Hello JaneHathaway2 in this thread).

The purpose of that thread was (apparently) to engage Mumsnetters on FWR in a discussion about that OP's lengthily detailed "concerns" that Graham Linehan might be suffering from "mental health problems" - the "symptoms" (apparently) on display in Benjamin Boyce's recent YouTube interview with Linehan.

So many eloquent posts in that thread from that OP, demanding repentance and apologies from Glinner alongside exquisitely detailed expressions of "concern".

I do not believe that that is how "mental health problems" are diagnosed and cured these days - it sounded more like a combination of a Maoist struggle session , Stalinist "psychiatry" and a witch trial.

Pleased to see that that thread is being "looked at" and hoping that that is the last we have seen of it.

As far as I am aware it was the only thread highlighting the BB interview with GL. The video itself was not linked by the OP. All the better to invite speculation without the bother of providing anything so trivial as evidence?

Beyond irony, the video referenced in the now-hidden "mental health concern" thread, is titled:

"Cancel Culture Club | with Graham Linehan"

The first victims of "Cancel Culture" mentioned by Linehan in that video are Julie Bindel, who he decided to listen to along with "the many, many women who were shut down like her".

I am disappointed and sorry to learn from women here that they have suffered in different ways due to Linehan's actions (it is all very mysterious and unspecified but I am happy to take their word for it).

I was in two minds about adding to this thread and "bumping" it but there were a couple of things that bothered me.

First, the "Advanced Search" for user names thing. I did it when I saw what I thought was a bizarre OP post about Linehan (the thread now "being looked at"). The results showed that this was apparently a "first time poster". However, people change User Names so, for all I know, it might have been someone who has been posting here for years under another name or names.

Secondly, the unintentional false impression given by this thread that there were two other threads started around the same time that were "boosting" Linehan, ie. at the expense of women who have been doing good things. I thought that impression needed correcting as one of those threads sought from the outset to portray Linehan as "problematic", made unsupported insinuations about his mental health, was extremely distasteful and possibly defamatory.

Finally, the irony of what I perceived as an attempt to deflect attention from the articles in the Daily Mail and The Times by using an interview with Linehan that focussed on "Cancel Culture". You really could not make that up!

(Just checked in case there is another Glinner thread that might lead to this post being misunderstood and yes, there is, it is about a Glinner Newsnight interview. No comment - this is already uncomfortably close to being a "Thread About A Thread" as it is.)

@Poota

I would love to laud academia, the police, the CPS, the EHRC, the NHS, most journalists etc for calling out this bullshit - ‘assigned at birth (nope happened 9 months before) and observed at birth, telling children you can be born in the wrong body (you can’t- you only get given one), pushing experimental puberty blockers and surgical intervention to children etc BUT MOST don’t.

Too cowardly. Even though they all know it’s true.

I am happy to laud anyone who puts their head above the parapet to tell the truth. I am happy to laud anyone who defends my daughters’ rights NOT to see a fucking adult male penis when they get changed for swimming in our female communal changing rooms and for that adult male with a penis NOT to have the right to watch them change just to validate themselves - or worse-, that their female biology is fact and actually means something.

All the politicians are failing.

I laud men and women- Glinner, James Kirkup, Douglas Murray, David Challen, Janice Turner, Meghan Murphy, Madeleine Kearns, Emma Hilton etc.

All of them need cheering on / lauding... no one is perfect

I think it’s a bit much to resent glinner for being a “spokesperson”. He speaks out because he is genuinely concerned and angry about what is happening. If he gets more response, that’s not his fault. He’s known, his comedies were/are hugely popular My view is that, of course this issue affects women and girls more than men but, I really think that where we are being told to embrace an ideology that tells us to state untruths as truth, to deny reality, to ignore safeguarding for children, to celebrate unnecessary and harmful surgery and drugs, then that is a major concern for EVERYONE, not just women. This really isn’t purely a women’s issue to my mind.

Of course people who criticise what is happening are not a homogenous group. We will have different politics, different types of feminism. There will be “spokespeople” who we may not entirely agree with on other issues, or agree their own emphases. I just think Graham Linehan has been really brave, he has risked his career and if there were many more like him - as well as the women who have risked their careers to speak out, we would be in a better place.

Kudos to Glinner. He's suffered a lot of abuse over this and for people to criticise him for being a man is unhelpful and mean.