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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

All right then, what do I need to know about Kirk Douglas?

44 replies

Faceicle · 06/02/2020 14:39

I'm getting the impression that he may have been a sexual abuser. Is this so?

OP posts:
NextdoorNeighbourIsATwat · 06/02/2020 20:40

The man died - show some respect to his family - funny how all that comes out as soon as the persons gone and can't defend themselves

Read the above. These allegations have been around for years and he boasted about what a callous abuser he was.

But yknow, he was such a good actor Hmm

Honest to fuck, I'm sick of retrograde attitudes and male violence.

Cwenthryth · 06/02/2020 21:14

Oh well if there's stuff on line it has to be true.
If that was directed at me posting the LMGTFY link, I was simply making a tongue-in-cheek point to the OP asking the discussion board to dispense information they could have looked for themselves, it happens a lot around here. Sorry OP - I’ve had a bad day personally and was grumpy, it’s probably not a friendly thing to do to someone you don’t know.

Doyoumind · 06/02/2020 21:18

I was aware of all this before. It's not new news and I am also fed up of all sins being forgotten when someone dies. By all accounts he wasn't a good person. Let's not pretend he was.

theflushedzebra · 06/02/2020 21:50

RIP Natalie Wood.

siring1 · 06/02/2020 22:07

It was directed at Patsypie

NeighbourPooNameChange · 06/02/2020 22:14

There are other more verifiable sources posted in this thread siring1 😊 And the internet’s been awash but it’s been reported widely as an extremely credible and believable allegation. And he was a cunt to boot so fits the profile 🤷‍♀️

howwillthispanout · 06/02/2020 22:19

Will be interesting Academy Awards ceremony (hopefully)

HopeClearwater · 06/02/2020 22:23

Oh well if there's stuff on line it has to be true

This stuff goes back to before the internet was born.

InglouriousBasterd · 06/02/2020 22:30

BBC news just mentioned that even Michael Douglas has said he was aggressive and had numerous affairs. Insane how his own son can see and describe his character when the internet fawns over him. He was allegedly implicated in the disappearance of a young actress he was working with - Jean Spangler.

Goosefoot · 06/02/2020 22:38

There are other more verifiable sources posted in this thread

Yeah, though I wouldn't call them gold standard. I tend to think that it's true, but that's a gut feeling on my part. The sources of the story leave out some important parts if you take each one individually, and it's hard to verify the source for the most complete version of the story. I can see why a newspaper for example would prefer not to mention it, and would want to be clear about the lack of verifiability if they did.

But given the rest of the stuff we know about him, it's a bit weird to see all sorts of people saying how great he was, it seems like no one really liked him as a colleague. So why not just comment on his acting?

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 06/02/2020 22:43

He was a rapist who gave screen credit to the blacklisted writers during the McCarthy era.

justasking111 · 06/02/2020 22:47

Cannot think of anything nice to say about him.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 06/02/2020 22:48

I just had to check that i was on feminism chat

Cwenthryth · 06/02/2020 22:56

I did notice - I think it was LBC news - read out Michael Douglas’ statement and it didn’t really say anything personal, just commented on his career really.

OvaltinaTurner · 06/02/2020 23:00

Natalie's sister Lana spoke of the rape on a podcast and daughter Natasha Gregson Warner was thought to have confided in Robert Downey Junior.
Wiki has been editing Natalie's entry today.

Suzanne Finstad's 2001 biography of Wood alleges that she was raped by a powerful actor when she was 16. Through the recollection of Wood's close friends, which included late actors Scott Marlowe and Dennis Hopper, Finstad summarizes:

Though her five close friends' memories of some details or timing differ after forty-five years, the essence of what each recalls Natalie confiding to them is the same: that the same married film star lured or tricked Natalie, raped her so brutally she was physically injured, and she was too frightened or intimidated to report it to the police. Natalie "hated" her former screen idol afterwards, "shuddering" if she heard his name. She would keep the horrible secret, and behave as if nothing happened whenever their paths intersected, too schooled by Mud [her mother] in the politics of Hollywood to cross a powerful movie star.

In 2018, Lana Wood said during a 12-part podcast about Wood's life that the attack occurred inside the Chateau Marmont during an audition and went on "for hours". According to professor Cynthia Lucia who studied the attack, Wood's rape was quite brutal and violent.

So some entitled old white dude reaches the ripe age of 103 without ever being investigated for alleged crimes of his youth while being lauded as a legend ary rapist
I'll pass. And the Oscars would do well to mention him on the list of departed but not give him his own special fanfare if they have any sense.

It is Kobe Bryant all over again - adulation and eulogies all over whilst passing over reporting well established allegations from their past because we are schooled not to speak ill of the dead. Kirk's autobiography shows how how he treated women.

----------------------

As I said when I posted about Kobe Bryant - who had also been a philanthropist and later championed women's sport as well as being an alleged rapist for which he apologised to the victim - you can be both things.
So yes Kirk Douglas might have been a good actor and broken the blacklist by having Trumbo credited for Sparticus but neither prevent him from also being a shit.

Simon Armitage puts it beautifully in Poem, the idea of a person being both good and bad and being measured accordingly. If you believe in St.Peter and all that you believe in a reckoning. If you don't then you live on in how people remember you. Some will remember KD as a Hollywood great, others as a disgusting individual...or both.

And if it snowed and snow covered the drive
he took a spade and tossed it to one side.
And always tucked his daughter up at night
And slippered her the one time that she lied.
And every week he tipped up half his wage.
And what he didn't spend each week he saved.
And praised his wife for every meal she made.
And once, for laughing, punched her in the face.

And for his mum he hired a private nurse.
And every Sunday taxied her to church.
And he blubbed when she went from bad to worse.
And twice he lifted ten quid from her purse.

Here's how they rated him when they looked back:
sometimes he did this, sometimes he did that.
Simon Armitage

OvaltinaTurner · 06/02/2020 23:09

And none of this is new...in 2018 at the bloody height of #metoo Kirk Douglas was at the golden globes receiving an award and twitter had a field day then even if google has wiped some of the results...it was deemed controversial and in poor taste.

Goosefoot · 07/02/2020 01:52

IIRC though her sister never named KD. And the story which is supposed to have come from Robert Downey Jr was supposed to be NW's what he heard from NW's daughter, so that's not as direct as you might like for evidence. More importantly though it's completely unverifiable that it was RDJ who told the story in any case, as it was an internet account under a screen name on a forum.

It seems pretty established Hollywood gossip which I daresay is often entirely accurate, but I'm not sure I'd call it evidence.

nettie434 · 07/02/2020 09:05

The Simon Armitage poem and your post are great OvaltinaTurner. There was a good item about Kirk Douglas on Radio 4’s Front Row last night mentioning the rape allegations (although not naming any one) as well as his acting performances and origins as a poor immigrant. They pointed out that by the time of Spartacus McCarthy’s influence was waning so using Dalton Trumbo by his own name (rather than a ‘front’) was not as brave as it might have been a little earlier. By contrast Dashiell Hammett was sent to prison after he refused to name members of the Civil Rights Congress (but there’s my bias, I admire him much more as a writer and person).

Hollywood has always been a place in which men’s power has gone almost unchallenged. A few women fight the system or make it work for them but they are the minority. I think there have been advances but it will be a long time before there will be real change. Harvey Weinstein behaved like a Hollywood producer from the 1930s and yet he remained unchallenged for many years, even if we assume pending the results of his trial that all the relationships were legally consensual.

Goosefoot · 07/02/2020 15:36

Hollywood has a toxic combination of qualities tha . very large amounts of money involved. Large numbers of people desperate to work there and become rich, and even more, famous. (Why are many people so highly motivated to do really crazy stuff, either destructive of others or of themselves, if it might make them famous?) And there really is a sense where acting in films is a sort of flesh trade, even with talented actors their physicality and charisma is so much a factor, and they are expected to use their bodies and emotions in a way that can be very intimate. All for pay.

All of this lends itself to a climate of exploitation.

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