Police uncovering 'epidemic of child abuse' in 1970s and 80s

[RoyalCorgi]

Just wanted to draw attention to this.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/05/police-uncovering-epidemic-of-child-abuse-in-1970s-and-80s

A couple of key points:

"New figures seen by the Guardian show that 4,024 allegations led to guilty verdicts at court after police investigations since 2014 into decades-old child sex offences."

"Chief Constable Simon Bailey, the national lead for child protection and abuse investigations, told the Guardian: 'We are now having to come to terms, as a society, and we are going to have to recognise and accept, that during the 1970s and 1980s in particular, there was widespread sexual abuse of children taking place.'"

When are people going to actually sit up and realise that child abuse is endemic? That when people like us bang on about safeguarding we're not doing it for fun or because we hate men or we're transphobic or whatever the fuck it is this week but because there is an actual massive problem of men sexually abusing women and children and it just goes on and on and on because people pretend it isn't happening? And that it will go on on and on until someone listens to us and takes it seriously?

I don't know.

It's exhausting

Unfortunately I think women who have been lucky enough to get into positions of power have often not experienced the type of inequality other women have and so they don't see the bigger picture.

Unfortunately I think women who have been lucky enough to get into positions of power have often not experienced the type of inequality other women have and so they don't see the bigger picture.

Think about the lifelong impact of child sexual abuse, and then think about the fact that the majority of victims are girls, and then think about how few women are in positions of power. The fact that girl children being molested and raped is so common isn't the only reason so few of us are able to make it into positions of power, but it's part of the overall picture. The lifelong damage done to women is a feature, not a bug, from a cynical perspective.

I'm just old enough to remember the 70s (born in 73) and it's not like this stuff was hidden. It was pretty much right out in the open from what I can remember. Not the organized stuff regarding children in care, but in terms of men creeping on little girls? Pretty much right out in the open, and not much effort made to protect the kids at all. "Normalised", in fact.

I agree with you, about child sexual abuse being endemic and far more prevalent than people realise. Myself and DH both work in the field and I think will always be incredibly wary about where our children go and whom they are in contact with. However, increasing incidences of women as sexual abusers, and peer abuse by young people, are also of huge concern. I am not trying to minimise males being the largest proportionate group of abusers, however the issue is more complicated than that and targeting our concern at men only can cause us to miss risks, and alienate those who have been abused by women or young people.

It’s also horrifying thinking of how the internet enables communities of paedophiles now in a way that could never have been achieved in the 70s. I think one gap is that we do not have any mainstream services akin to those in some European countries for people who have sexual attraction to children and want to seek help.

One of the problems we have Merename is we have no idea of the numbers of women convicted of abuse as the statistics are completely bolloxed up.

However when statistics were more reliable % were extremely low compared to numbers of male predators (obviously now comes the tedious caveat that I'm not generalising namalt) so whilst not wanting to minimise anyone's experience focussing more of your risk reduction efforts on the biggest risk is most effective.

I agree, langcleg, and prevalence studies regarding sexual abuse are by nature incredibly problematic. Convictions arguably tell us very little due to difficulties in reporting, and difficulties securing convictions. In my work I am often surprised by the numbers of women and children as abusers I come across - this is not statistical either of course, but its only been acknowledged as possible in recent years by professionals, let alone the general public. All that said I agree in general about the priority being to target the biggest area of risk - to my knowledge male family members and people known to the child. How to reduce that risk is another issue with lots of disagreement.

there is an actual massive problem of men sexually abusing women and children and it just goes on and on and on

Yes. Like you say, endemic. There are a lot of men about.

I'm just old enough to remember the 70s (born in 73) and it's not like this stuff was hidden. It was pretty much right out in the open from what I can remember

Agreed.

One of the powerful scenes in Unforgotten Series 2 was when Tessa, the police officer wife of a child rapist, who had known but tried to maintain she hadn't, broke down and said of the 80s: [it was an era when] a rock star could go on telly and be interviewed about his underage girlfriend without getting arrested. We all bought into that – until we didn’t.

the fact that the majority of victims are girls,

Not sure this is true...there are very many cases of child abuse in a number of prominent public schools in the UK in the 1970s through to 1990s that are mainly men abusing boys and I'm on forums where you can see the lifelong impact that has on the boys.

Also think about the football coaching scandals, that's not girls either.

The biggest problem is the institutional cover-ups that try to offload the culprit quietly without damaging the reputation of the institution. We see that time and again, even recently with the Ian Paterson scandal.

But I do agree that most of the perpetrators are male.

Statistically there are more girl victims than boys, but that is not to belittle the boy victims.

Child abuse is rife. Child abuse is covered up.

Eight years ago, I found out that there is, in fact, a paedophile on every corner.

My friend's (not so D)H was charged and convicted of child abuse offences online, which included stuff along the lines of Ian Watkins fantasies. It was shocking and stomach-turning stuff that they found on his computer - including the sexual torture of pre-verbal toddlers and babies. Finding out that someone you knew and trusted did that - and that he had spent time with my own children - changes you as a person. I now trust very, very few people (men!) to be alone with my children.

In the course of looking at his case as it went to court, I found that our next-door-but-one neighbour in our old house had been convicted and imprisoned over child abuse indecent images and bestiality, and something awful involving real-life horses.

At the same time I had a call from an old friend who lived in a different town - her neighbour across the road had just been caught with indecent images of children.

The ones the police catch are only the tip of the iceberg.

There's one on every corner. I firmly believe that now. And they find each other on the internet now - something they couldn't do in the 70s.

There's one on every corner. I firmly believe that now. And they find each other on the internet now - something they couldn't do in the 70s.

This is so true. There are huge numbers of children being abused. And at the point where safeguarding is finally improving, what could be more inevitable than abusers trying to find ways to get around it?

On the question of whether boys or girls are more likely to be abused, I agree that huge numbers of boys have been abused in boarding schools, children's homes and so on, so it's difficult to tell, but I think on balance, more girls will have been abused simply because most men are heterosexual.

On the question of whether boys or girls are more likely to be abused, I agree that huge numbers of boys have been abused in boarding schools, children's homes and so on, so it's difficult to tell, but I think on balance, more girls will have been abused simply because most men are heterosexual.

I think before the onset of puberty the numbers are similar but as the body starts to develop the ratio changes to be mostly girls.

Think about the lifelong impact of child sexual abuse, and then think about the fact that the majority of victims are girls, and then think about how few women are in positions of power. The fact that girl children being molested and raped is so common isn't the only reason so few of us are able to make it into positions of power, but it's part of the overall picture.

This.

A friend of a friend took her life in her 30s after being abused as a child. She struggled on trying to deal with it for her early adult life but just couldn't. All her family members were badly affected as was my friend.

The evil effects of child abuse ripple outwards and affect not only individual lives but the whole of society.

I find it utterly disgusting that the men who do this and those who apologise for them aren't held to account. I do think some crimes are so awful that they should suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives (after all, their victims suffer for the rest of their lives) and that others should know about their convictions. In order to safeguard their kids.

We need more sunlight on the evil that is child abuse - but instead we have twitter welcoming MAPs ('minor attracted persons = paedophiles) and police forces ignoring and covering up child abuse crimes because they don't want to be seen as racist.

As others have said, it is endemic. I think the headline is pretty misleading actually, I very much doubt that somehow since the eighties numbers have dropped.

It was the world we grew up in. The word of a child against an adult was automatically discounted. It was what Lord Denning would have called an 'appalling vista.'

Boys. Girls. The victms were all victims. It's not a competition.

And even today:
Scotland's finance secretary has quit hours before delivering his budget amid reports that he messaged a 16-year-old boy on social media. The Scottish Sun said that Derek Mackay contacted the boy over a six-month period, and told him that he was "cute"...and sent about 270 messages on Instagram and through Facebook.

My understanding is not that there was more abuse then, but that it was not recognised. As the wife upthread said, rock stars were interviewed with their underage girlfriends. It was acceptable in a way that by and large it no longer is.

Teenage girls pestered by men in their thirties- normal.
15 year olds with boyfriends of 28- cool.
15 year olds groomed by married men, babysitters seduced on the way home... the girl was viewed as a Lolita.

Younger children being told they are lucky uncle jim takes them out fishing every Saturday. Don't be so ungrateful.

A mixture of genuine innocence, and a twisted public narrative about sexual behaviour.

And the law has changed. Prior to 2003, there was no offence of 'sexual activity with a child.' Anything short of full intercourse was a grey area that was in practice never going to be prosecuted.

Topless sixteen year olds on Page 3, and sometimes modestly posed topless 14 and 15 year olds was also fine and dandy.

It’s also worth remembering that these abusers largely don’t just potter around aimlessly waiting for opportunities to arise.

They are incredibly motivated, focused, persistent and in many cases intelligent, sociable and entirely convincing as lovely normal people.

I can’t really get on board with the continual head shaking disbelief when respected doctors or other professionals at the top of their field are found to be abusing children. If anything it is entirely expected that predators should be found in large numbers in positions of power, trust and influence.

See charities, children’s organisations, healthcare, coaching, schools etc

I think before the onset of puberty the numbers are similar but as the body starts to develop the ratio changes to be mostly girls.

True paedophiles often don't differentiate between boys and girls in terms of sexual interest, and by definition they are interested pre-puberty. The physical differences are not that significant at that age. If they are also attracted post-pubertal kids that's not part of their paedophilia and it usually is specific by sex.

But there are also people who abuse minors who are in puberty or sometimes even finished if you are talking about 15 or 16 year olds, that's usually not an abnormal sexual orientation at work, it's more about lack of boundaries, desire to control, and that sort of thing. Those people are typically attracted to either males or females like any other adult.

I can’t really get on board with the continual head shaking disbelief when respected doctors or other professionals at the top of their field are found to be abusing children. If anything it is entirely expected that predators should be found in large numbers in positions of power, trust and influence.

Absolutely. These are the people most likely to be abusing children or other vulnerable adults. Headteachers, teachers, people at senior levels in children's charities, consultant doctors, priests, bishops etc etc. What amazes me is the number of people who still don't get it despite the huge number of cases we see constantly. I remember a ridiculous debate on Twitter not so long ago about the whole business of whether as a woman you have the right to have your smear test carried out by a woman and someone saying, "No one's going to train to be a health professional just because he hopes he can perform a smear test and get a glimpse of fanny." On the contrary, that is exactly what an abuser is going to do. Look at that doctor recently found to be spying on a teenage girl. People's naivety beggars belief sometimes.

it's more about lack of boundaries, desire to control, and that sort of thing
Is it not all about power to some extent?

I also had a friend who committed suicide at 31 after being raped by her father through her adolescence. She left two tiny children.
I think that the climate in the 70s and 80s did see teenage girls with much older men as precocious, rather than groomed. Bill Wyman for instance, how old was Mandy Smith, 13 or 14 ?
Now, I feel the internet means that although in public life things have changed, it is far easier for men to find images of abuse, and to meet or communicate with each other and share images. I live in a rural village and I have come across two men I am sure are paedophiles, yet when a friend called the police about one of these men, they dismissed it as a neighbour dispute , rather than taking a very close look at his hard drive. He had been lurking and taking pictures of her child in a paddling pool, which another neighbour had also found him doing years before.

There today and recently way too many threads opened up about child abuse and sexual abuse going on within 'normal' appearances families on Mumsnet common theme on Mumsnet, questioning if they are doing the right thing as it's too easy to keep quiet and cover it up. When are we going to have the strength to deal with this and say no. It's not ok. It's a crime.

there is an actual massive problem of men sexually abusing women and children and it just goes on and on and on because people pretend it isn't happening
Quite right. It interests me that even in this article they are pretending it is somehow a peculiarity of the 70s, despite the fact there are ongoing scandals like rotherham or that gym coach Larry Nassar in the states, or this
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34219235

I'm flipping sick of it tbh. And the victim blaming and apologism that goes on when it's in the news.

There is no way I'd let my children go anywhere they might be unchaperoned with a male teacher/sports coach/scout leader etc. It's just too high risk.

I am also encouraging my daughter to trust her gut so if she tells me she finds someone creepy I validate that. There is too much "oh he seems like a nice man..." that goes on and it allows these predators to operate more easily.

I speak as someone who was abused as a child and looking back I believe it was a ring because it was a sports coach and a lot of the other coaches around the sport at the time also got convicted of abuse.

I think that society has a long way to go in acknowledging the extent of the problem of sexual abuse of children. The headline should not really be about sexual abuse of children being an epidemic in the 1970's and 80's because it was endemic then and it is endemic now. There are some differences of course between then and now, to do with safeguarding legislation and social acceptability, but I don't think that much has changed.

I was sexually abused throughout most of the 1980's. I don't think that enough has changed between now and then to prevent exactly the same sort of abuse happening again and on the same scale. Predators still know how to approach a child in ways to prevent her or him from either understanding what is happening or to prevent her or him from escaping or disclosing or being believed. Children, once they in someway understand what is happening to them, still have the same fears about disclosing that they always did, the fear of not being believed, the fear of being blamed, the fear of hurting their loved ones, and the shame - always the shame.

As a society we think that we understand these things much better nowadays but I think that we really don't. Most adults don't understand grooming - and how not only children are groomed but also the adults around them and the rest of society. We, as a society, don't understand coercive control either, or misdirection and being encouraged to look away or in another direction. We don't understand victim-blaming and about how all these resources that are going into schools to "help and enable children to keep themselves safe" place the blame for failure to stay safe and prevent abuse on the child. We also don't understand the power imbalance between a child and an adult, we think that we do but I think that it is clear that many adults in society have a really poor understanding of child development and children's vulnerabilities.

As a society we have made progress of course, especially around safeguarding legislation, but we are seeing safeguarding best practice challenged and diluted. We are seeing those with the loudest, clearest and most persistent voices about safeguarding being shut down, rather than recognised as some of the most important weapons we have in this fight.

Society continues to prioritise adult concerns over child safeguarding and we will not IMO make progress on the endemic sexual abuse of children, until we change this.