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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Drag Queen Story Time at the British Library

356 replies

TundraDweller · 04/02/2020 10:17

Three Drag Queen Story Times in one day -

www.bl.uk/events/family-day-young-rebels

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2020 20:04

Which panto dame calls women "fish"?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2020 20:06

If you guys don't want kids to be encouraged into taking hormones and stuff,

Just us then? Does that mean you do? Or are just ambivalent about it?

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 04/02/2020 20:06

Which pantomime has the dame in oversexulised clothes?

SaltLampBae · 04/02/2020 20:07

*ok, salt, if we accept your premise that it’s positive for little boys to see that it’s fine to dress up, to be camp, to be gay (which I agree that it is, though I disagree that DQST is how this is best achieved)...

What’s in it for little girls?*

I guess they'd enjoy it on the same level as they do a pantomime dame - a funny, silly performer, who is reading them a story.

I mean, I'm not sure I'd bother taking my DD to an event - but if there was one in my area and a few of my mum friends said they had been and it was great, I can't see that I'd have any particular issue with going along.

Goosefoot · 04/02/2020 20:07

I don't really think panto is that similar to drag. For one thing cross-dressing in that context is more about a sort of upside-down world, there are also other examples in the show. (Though IMO the best drag is a bit like this too.) And you don't have to have sexualised jokes, or ones that are inappropriate, or that kids really are aware of.

But mainly, it's a show that's generally not just for adults. It's not in a place that is adults only, with characters named for adult activities, etc. Whereas drag is a show, for adults.

I'd not really expect to see panto dame storytime at a library, but at least the kids might know who it was supposed to be. (It might be like having the Paw Patrol Pups, but less popular. )But drag story time, at best, is a bit like getting any celebrity known to adults who the kids are totally clueless about come to read, it's pointless. And it has potential to be more like "adult film star" story time.

SarahTancredi · 04/02/2020 20:07

Because drag queens arent camp men in dresses. They are over sexualised porno versions of what men think women are with sexual innuendo based names to match.

Justhadathought · 04/02/2020 20:08

Yeah... that's where I'm confused. I've heard plenty of pretty misogynistic, risqué jokes told by pantomime dames. I don't understand why this is considered a new phenomenon

it isn't a new phenomenon - but the pantomime dames were always, really, for the adults...not for the children......I remember as a child feeling a bit weirded out by them.

And besides, many things used to be presented as family entertainment which simply wouldn't be considered appropriate now.
Times have changed.

SophocIestheFox · 04/02/2020 20:09

But the little girls don’t get the positive role models while the fun story time happens, only the little boys.

Bit sexist, isn’t it?

SaltLampBae · 04/02/2020 20:10

*If you guys don't want kids to be encouraged into taking hormones and stuff,

Just us then? Does that mean you do? Or are just ambivalent about it?*

Well no, clearly not. As I'm literally making the case for DQST teaching kids they don't have to do this - they don't have to conform to gender norms, they can just be whoever they are.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 04/02/2020 20:11

they can just be whoever they are.
How does this work, drag acts are a man being a fictional character, it's not who they are.

Binterested · 04/02/2020 20:12

This is not about bending gender norms. This is about reinforcing them - women are ludicrous and either highly sexualised or repellent or both.

If this was a man in a dress reading a story I’d be delighted. Boy George wearing makeup to read a story fine. A lesbian in a suit reading a story fine. Grotesque parody of womanhood sexualised and stigmatised (fish jokes) no thank you. It’s men eroding parents’ boundaries around sexualised content for children - in a sodding library.

CallofDoodee · 04/02/2020 20:12

Pantomimes and pantomime dames are not about claiming to 'educate' children about LGBT stuff either are they? They are just part of a wider, silly, performance of a well known fairytale usually, which often features women dressing up as men, gunging or pie facing people and some songs.

I wouldn't care if a Panto didn't have a dame tbh.

Justhadathought · 04/02/2020 20:13

Out of interest - if they didn't make any misogynistic comments, would you still have a problem with it

I don't think I would, no.......Justin dresses up as female characters on Cbeebies and it is laregly inoffensive fun ( largely for the parents, I'd say - adult humour)..... I think my granddaughter looks at it and does not quite know what to make of it...( she's 5).

Justhadathought · 04/02/2020 20:14

largely

SarahTancredi · 04/02/2020 20:14

Well no, clearly not. As I'm literally making the case for DQST teaching kids they don't have to do this - they don't have to conform to gender norms, they can just be whoever they are

If a couple.of dbs checked men turned up in a sensible skirt or dress along side female police officers and mechanics or a male dancer then there wouldnt be a problem.

But they bring in drag queens. Drag queens themselves say its not a children's act. This is nothing more than grooming children into thinking men.parading their fetish in.public is normal.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2020 20:14

Well no, clearly not.

Oh ok, just your weird framing then. "You don't want kids to be given hormones". Never mind.

SaltLampBae · 04/02/2020 20:15

*But the little girls don’t get the positive role models while the fun story time happens, only the little boys.

Bit sexist, isn’t it?*

What? Grin not every entertainer has to be a role model to everybody, surely? Some people can just... entertain?

But yeah - I don't want my DD to grow up thinking men have to be super macho or whatever, or for her to have in any way homophobic or transphobic views. Obviously I'm working hard personally to make sure she grows up to be tolerant of everybody, but I really couldn't care less if she sees a man in a dress on TV, on in the street, or at an event. I'm not desperate for it, but I certainly don't have an issue with it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2020 20:15

Out of interest - if they didn't make any misogynistic comments, would you still have a problem with it

If it was inappropriately sexualised, yes. Otherwise no.

Greenglassteacup · 04/02/2020 20:16

How and why has this become a thing? I just do not get it at all

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2020 20:17

Queer theory.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 04/02/2020 20:18

You seem to be dilibrately missing the fact it's a drag act performing for children salt, which people have issue with not a "Camp man in a dress"

Justhadathought · 04/02/2020 20:18

Well no, clearly not. As I'm literally making the case for DQST teaching kids they don't have to do this - they don't have to conform to gender norms, they can just be whoever they are

But isn't the nature of drag to dramatise and be really over the top, rather than natural? Grayson Perry, on the other hand, does go about his 'thing' by just being himself - albeit dressed in over the top female attire.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 04/02/2020 20:19

I really couldn't care less if she sees a man in a dress on TV, on in the street, or at an event. I'm not desperate for it, but I certainly don't have an issue with it.

You can literally watch any episode of giggle quiz or giggle bits and see Justine Fletcher in a dress.
This is not what the issue is.

SaltLampBae · 04/02/2020 20:19

I don't think anybody should make sexualised comments in front of kids - honestly, I've cringed at some stuff that's said at pantos, hence why I made the connection.

I just don't think that a camp man wearing clothes traditionally worn by women is unsuitable to read a story to kids. Without all of the problematic stuff, which is clearly problematic. Sounds like some of you agree. That's all I was curious about, really.