Let's talk, women's rights as human rights

[OncewasLangandClegtwo]

I think this would be a good discussion.

What are women's rights as human rights?
Do women's rights as human rights differinate from women's rights? (in your county/and other countries)

From the UN website:

www.un.org/en/chronicle/article/womens-rights-human-rights

I read the link but I'm still not sure of what women's rights as human rights are, but they do know who the oppressors of women are.

I was thinking about this too after the Keir starmer webchat.

I was looking at this link:
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights/human-rights-act

I'm not really that keen on that document, it seems to assume too much to me.

However, in terms of my own thinking, as much as human rights are a real thing, they refer to recognition of the intrinsic and inalienable nature of what it is to be human, or human dignity.

Rights of women in particular, or for that matter men in particular, or children in particular, etc, are about recognising that human dignity within the specific context of female or male biology. That is, they derive from a human right, that takes on a particular form or aspect when considered in terms of how it is instantiated within the female body, or the male body, or the body of the child.

In the uk I see women's rights as the rights required to balance out injustices, to explicitly give us what we would have if we were male

Ie the additional rights to give us the same human rights as men?

Which covers equal pay, autonomy, respect, the right to be treated according to our biology without that biology affecting the outcome of the treatment ( so we can have safety gear that fits rather than being barred from a particular role) , the right to fully participate in society ( so women's sports fall in there , as could toilets)

For context, Cedaw - esp the preamble and art 1 - is a good place to start
www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/text/econvention.htm#part1

Human Rights are universal. They apply to everyone all the time.

The problem with the phrase women's rights is that it has two possible meanings:

• The rights that women have.
• The rights that women in particular and/or only women have.

The former includes human rights. The latter excludes them, and gets into the realm of natural rights, and civil rights often confused with human rights.

Some of the problem is the phrase 'human rights' has been thrown around and overapplied in other contexts until it's lost shared meaning, in the same way as 'woman' and 'literal' and 'inclusion'.

As Mockers says, there are human rights - which are a fixed, quantifiable list on an international agreement - civil rights, natural rights, and then as Kier demonstrated yesterday, there's things being called rights that in fact aren't and are questionable as to whether they should be.

For example it is absolutely not a human right to be legally recognised as something you objectively are not because you've chosen to be.

Should that be a right embedded (and therefore enforced) in society?

Does that do only good or is there harm to other people's interests involved there? What about the allocation of resources to reduce inequality (for example if you identify as quadriplegic, should you be able to have a carer and a converted house/car equally to someone who IS quadriplegic? If you identify as a five year old should you be legally entitled to attend a reception class in school? If you identify as ninety two, should you be entitled to a pension and day centre placement? If you identify as female should you be able to use female only spaces and be permitted to do personal and invasive procedures on other females when they've asked for a same sex hcp?)

Should this be enforced internationally, when standardised human rights about not being executed by the state or child safeguarding or child labour laws or not being separated from your family haven't yet been sorted out, or is this the extreme end of privilege talking?

What responsibilities go with those rights?

That's really interesting. I'd not thought about what the actual terms all mean - will go and do some reading. Thank you!

Hi
Just wanted to say I didn't just make this thread and bugger off.
Something happened that can only happen to women. It seems something so common, that I was sent off just with an I'm sorry and a booklet.

Human Rights are universal. They apply to everyone all the time.
Thanks mockers this is what I was thinking.
So as far as say women's rights, travellers rights, romas rights go, they can only be from human rights?

Something happened that can only happen to women. It seems something so common, that I was sent off just with an I'm sorry and a booklet.