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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

neck like a jockey's arse

42 replies

againstvaw · 27/01/2020 17:41

Here is letter from Helen Webberley to the BMJ about education on gender dysphoria for doctors. Webberley was struck off the medical register after a teenage girl for whom she prescribed hormones for years commiitted suicide. She states that she has no competing interest in writing the letter.

"Re: The struggle for GPs to get the right care for patients with gender dysphoria

Dear Editor,

Once again we read about the difficulties faced by doctors who are asked to provide care for their trans patients. Yes, gender dysphoria can be a ‘difficult terrain for primary care doctors’, but it is also a difficult terrain for trans patients.

Sally Howard has carefully balanced the plight of patients stuck on long waiting lists to see specialists, with the difficulties presented by the lack of education available for doctors. She mentions that gender identity and gender dysphoria are not part of the GP curriculum, but startlingly, they are not part of any Royal College curriculum. If we examine the core competencies of the current GMC approved curricula for all of the specialties, in particular the curricula for the core competencies of General Practice, Paediatrics, Paediatric Endocrinology, Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, then the needs and care of transgender patients only exist in the GP curriculum.

There is no specific GMC speciality or sub-speciality for doctors providing treatment to transgender patients. In the section of their website on education, the GMC states: ‘We set the standards for providers of medical education and training, and we regularly check to make sure those standards are met. Here you'll find the standards, guidance and curricula we publish along with supporting materials.’ www.gmc-uk.org/education

How can standards be set, if the core competencies of a doctor’s knowledge do not include care for this patient group?

In the current absence of UK educational materials, doctors have a duty to seek out international guidance to help their patients. There are excellent published guidelines for GPs which have been written to ‘equip primary care providers and health systems with the tools and knowledge to meet the health care needs of their transgender and gender nonconforming patients.’ How is it still so acceptable for doctors not to undertake personal learning to address their lack of knowledge?
transcare.ucsf.edu/guidelines/introduction

Sally Howard quotes The Royal College of GPs advising their GPs to not feel ‘expected to fill gaps in commissioned gender identity specialists and clinics.’ However, this leaves their patients unsupported and them open to litigation battles. Is this really the best advice for their members?

Articles such as this continue to reinforce the narrative that this is a ‘difficult’ and ‘complex’ issue that needs specialist training. Few publications that write about the difficulty faced by doctors in their lack of knowledge and skills, actually pin down what the patients are asking their doctor to provide.

In her letter to the BMA back in 2016 regarding their response to the GMC Guidance for doctors treating transgender patients, Susan Goldsmith, acting Chief Executive for the GMC, wrote, ‘While GMP [Good Medical Practice] states “you must recognise and work within the limits of your competence”, this principle cannot be a bar to doctors taking on new responsibilities or treating unfamiliar conditions.’ She went on to say that ‘…we don’t believe that providing care for patients with gender dysphoria is a highly specialised treatment area requiring specific expertise.’
gendergp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Susan_Goldsmith_to_Chaan...

Patients need belief, support and medication. They are not asking to be ‘diagnosed’; they are asking to be believed when they explain how their gender feels different to the one they were assigned at birth. They are not asking for medications that are addictive, dangerous or that require extensive monitoring. They are asking for medications in common use in every day practice. Medicines such as estradiol, testosterone and GnRH agonists. Commonly used medications when treating menopause, androgen insufficiency and prostate cancer. They are not asking for deep psychotherapy, they are asking for support to help them navigate their lives.

And who is better placed to provide this than their GP?

Competing interests: No competing interests
24 January 2020
Helen Webberley
Doctor
GenderGP
www.GenderGP.com
@MyWebDoctorUK

OP posts:
Kantastic · 27/01/2020 17:46

Competing interests: No competing interests...www.GenderGP.com
Shock Shock Shock
...
...
...
Shock

Flagg · 27/01/2020 17:50

The GMC fell about three years when All About Trans went in to ‘train’ staff. Fully expect to soon see the Medical Register show a Doctor’s sex as m/f/other/rather not say. It’s a total clusterfuck.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/01/2020 17:58

Why would the BMJ publish a letter from a struck off GP? I'm gobsmacked.

stillathing · 27/01/2020 18:20

Why is she so scared of "deep psychotherapy" I wonder?

againstvaw · 27/01/2020 18:25

@stillathing

TRAs don't want the extent of child abuse to be revealed.

OP posts:
TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 27/01/2020 18:29

They are not asking for medications that are addictive, dangerous or that require extensive monitoring. They are asking for medications in common use in every day practice. Medicines such as estradiol, testosterone and GnRH agonists.

Jesus fucking Christ - has she not even read the little leaflet that comes with these medications? Is she really suggesting that dosing someone with cross-sex hormones doesn't need frequent monitoring, or that puberty blockers are in common daily use and aren't hugely dangerous?

Talk about brazenly saying something in a confident manner and assuming no-one will pull you up on it!

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 27/01/2020 18:31

I mean, aspirin is in common use, doesn't mean that it's safe to dose up my children with it.

I'm just gobsmacked that she's presumably trying to equate HRT suppressing someone's natural hormones and dosing them up with synthetics of the opposite sex.

loveyouradvice · 27/01/2020 18:31

Why would the BMJ publish a letter from a struck off GP? I'm gobsmacked.

Can a doctor or healthcare professional explain this? It seems extraordinary

OldCrone · 27/01/2020 19:15

It's a rapid response to an article. I'm don't know how they decide what to publish. There's another rapid response there from a representative of the Bayswater support group, who doesn't appear to be a doctor, so it's possible that anyone can comment.

All the rapid responses are here.
www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m215/rapid-responses

If you click on the article tab at the top of the page you should be able to see the whole article without a login (worked for me).

Socrates11 · 28/01/2020 04:31

Cracking thread title 🏆

TreeStumps, excellent point about aspirin.

The risks associated with Testosterone include increased risk of blood clots & strokes. If taken in stronger doses, like bodybuilder's do, the side effects are worse, liver & kidney failure, as well as the aforementioned heart problems.
www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/anabolic-steroids

In light of the problems associated with women being invisible in medication research (CC Perez book) I'd have grave reservations about young women's long term use of steroids being very safe. It's certainly not well researched.

PermanentTemporary · 28/01/2020 07:19

I didn't think dosing anyone with testosterone was in common daily practice? I'm not aware that men find it easy to be prescribed with it for low levels, and quite possibly for good reason (though possibly not - not a doctor)?

PermanentTemporary · 28/01/2020 07:22

Oh just... 'believed when they explain their gender feels different from the one they were assigned at birth'.

And you can believe that entirely without thinking medicalisation is the obvious next step.

Datun · 28/01/2020 07:43

They are not asking to be ‘diagnosed’; they are asking to be believed

It's such a turgid letter, but am I correct in saying she is claiming as most doctors really don't know what they're doing in this area, they might as well just prescribe on the patient's say so?

PermanentTemporary · 28/01/2020 07:46

Given all the highly disputed ideas in that sentence Datun... it certainly sounds like it. Children? Adults?

midclegs · 28/01/2020 09:30

This is where we need Lang Cleg back I feel. @mnhq

ScrimshawTheSecond · 28/01/2020 10:09

It sounds like it, Datun.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 28/01/2020 10:21

What other observable symptomless condition would GPs prescribe long term medications for’(particularly controlled substances like testosterone)?

None.

Datun · 28/01/2020 10:29

They are not asking to be ‘diagnosed’; they are asking to be believed

The breathtaking arrogance is difficult to accept.

"Just believe".

Needmoresleep · 28/01/2020 10:29

Dosing with testosterone...isn't there a whole generation of East German athletes who can attest to the risks. Didn't Sharron Davies, who at the height of her career was never beaten by anyone who was not from East Germany, make a documentary where she met her former rivals and ended up seeing them as victims, given their awful health problems.

The testosterone experiment has already been carried out. No need to repeat it.

Datun · 28/01/2020 10:30

"Just believe".

Although, in her defence, the entire diagnosis does consist of exactly those two words.

Mayomaynot · 28/01/2020 10:31

"They are not asking for medications that are addictive, dangerous or that require extensive monitoring. They are asking for medications in common use in every day practice. Medicines such as estradiol, testosterone and GnRH agonists. Commonly used medications when treating menopause, androgen insufficiency and prostate cancer. "

Because parents really want their gender non-conforming children to be given medications used to treat prostate cancer when they haven't got prostate cancer... Hmm And HW somehow thinks this is reasonable? Angry

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 28/01/2020 10:43

And estradiol for menopause is taken for a limited time period, with most GPS wanting you off it asap (certainly within 5 years).

When prescribed to trans patients it’s for much longer periods (either life long or until the person decides to detransition) so obviously it’s a much bigger risk.

Webberley is bonkers.

iklboo · 28/01/2020 10:44

She's not been struck off. She's currently suspended due to ongoing investigations.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 28/01/2020 10:45

I've just googled the first two meds listed there by Webberly, this information is not difficult to find.

On what basis is she claiming these are 'not dangerous' - especially as they are in trans cases being used for purposes other than that they are generally prescribed for? :

'Commonly reported side effects of estradiol include: cerebrovascular accident, infection, malignant neoplasm of breast, endometrium disease, headache, and mastalgia. Other side effects include: abdominal pain, limb pain, pruritus, sinusitis, nausea, skin rash, and vaginitis. See below for a comprehensive list of adverse effects.'

www.drugs.com/sfx/estradiol-side-effects.html
www.rxlist.com/consumer_estradiol/drugs-condition.htm#what_are_side_effects_of_estradiol

'Testosterone injection is used in men and boys to treat conditions caused by a lack of this hormone, such as delayed puberty or growth. It is only recommended for males with a known medical condition, such as a genetic disorder, problem with certain brain structures (called the hypothalamus and pituitary) or previous chemotherapy.'

'Misuse of testosterone can cause dangerous or irreversible effects. Testosterone injections should be given only by a healthcare professional. Testosterone can lead to serious problems with the heart, brain, liver, endocrine, and mental health systems. Stopping testosterone may also lead to unpleasant withdrawal symptoms.

Testosterone injections have also been linked to a condition called pulmonary oil microembolism (POME), or a blood clot in the lung that can be fatal. Seek medical help immediately for symptoms including chest pain, dizziness, trouble breathing, urge to cough, throat tightening and fainting.'

www.drugs.com/testosterone.html

The GnRH antagonists I don't know the trade names for, so haven't looked up. These are drugs usually used to treat late stage prostate cancer, I believe?

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 28/01/2020 10:45

And when GnRH analogies are given to girls with cancer (off label) it’s for a very limited time period (under 6 months, in my experience) and designed to preserve fertility, not risk ending it (by temporarily shutting down the ovaries so they are less likely to be damaged permanently by chemo).

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