Stuck between two sexes

[BovaryX]

There is an interview with Keira Bell which is quite distressing to read. She describes growing up as a tom boy and feeling alienated and isolated from her peers during adolescence. She was referred to CAHMS, then Tavistock and rapidly put on the hormone pathway. No other therapy was suggested. She had a double mastectomy in Brighton at 20. None of the doctors who saw her warned her about the serious medical implications of the drugs. Menopausal symptoms, brittle bones at the age of 20. She has been subjected to traumatic and potentially life altering events. Because she didn't conform to rigid sex stereotypes. The bravery and resilience shown by this elegant young woman are admirable. What has happened to her is a disgrace. Those in the medical profession responsible for this will be indicted by history's judgement.

Do the NHS not have ethics commitees and lawyers that advise on this type of thing? Do they not flag the dangers of using off-label drugs, especially on children?

Can you imagine the class actions further down the track? This is besides the lifelong damage and suffering caused. The costs could destroy the NHS more effectively than any government's policies or trade deals.

I think you exaggerate the impact of the cost. For a start we don’t have punitive damages in the uk (unlike America). It is also not the first and won’t be the last large scale scandal; thalidomide, infected blood products etc. That is not to say it’s impact won’t be significant though.

I read this earlier. It’s heartbreaking, that doesn’t sound strong enough, soulbreaking? It’s been said on here so many times that this was on the cards, this was foreseen.... doesn’t make it any easier does it.

Whatever the outcome of this case, Keira and hundreds like her will still have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives. The damage (physical & psychological) can never truly be undone, only patched up and healed from as best as possible.

The payouts should be for the lifelong treatment and support for detransitioners.

It's not just negligent it's bloody criminal.
It is heartbreaking what this young woman has been put through, and it was all so completely avoidable.
This has to stop.

I can't really comment properly because it's so personally upsetting and therefore affects my clarity of thought.

But I am in absolute awe of what Keira is doing and the courage she has to stand up and speak out.

These treatments are not only radical but experimental. No one knows what the outcomes will be - medically, mentally, emotionally.

As a mum who has a medically transitioning daughter, every day feels like we're deeper into the nightmare. I still can't fathom out how she has got to this place - and so quickly.

I can't thank Keira enough for everything she's doing.

what the actual fuck? to put someone on a path to destroying their body with such little preparation

Doesn’t surprise me at all. I knew anothrt endo sufferer who was given the first 3 month zoladex implant immediately after surgery, age 18, and not even told what it was beyond “something to help your hormones”. This is unfortunately a symptom of a medical community who do not take hormones seriously, don’t understand the impact of screwing about with them so severely, and don’t understand the true longterm effects of these drugs.

That’s bad enough when you’re an adult but completely unacceptable when dealing with children. I and many others have been banging this drum for over a decade and nothing has changed.

Can you imagine the class actions further down the track?

It’s unlikely to happen. Because, as shocking as it is, when your health has been destroyed by these drugs there is zero acceptance from the medical community that this drug is responsible, and almost no research to back it up.

You go in and say I have chronic fatigue,an obvious thyroid issue but one that’s pituitary based (and therefore essentially undiagnosable unless you can get referred to one of a tiny number of specialists - which you can’t), chronic pain, complete loss of libido for years/ decades after treatment etc etc and be told that’s not a known side effect. Therefore it’s not reported or recorded. And that’s how thousands of people (mainly women) are suffering with no answers and no treatment.

Under these circumstances it’s essentially impossible to sue. Look at the websites for past Lupron patients - it’s really shocking.

SisterWendy

BovaryX - Moles I thought the interview with Keira Bell merited its own thread because I think what she says is so compelling.

I agree

I didn't realise that your thread was about Keira or I would have posted in this thread instead

I didn't realise that your thread was about Keira or I would have posted in this thread instead blush

No problem. I really hope she has a good support network. She is incredibly brave and I wish her every success, she should never have been put through this traumatic treatment.

Currently there is no official NHS support for detransitioners at all. Endocrinologists just don’t want to get involved and want them re referred to the GICS, but the GIC system only supports transition away from birth sex, not back towards it. Once they’ve removed you from the list, they don’t want you back again
Plus, waits for the GIC are now 2-3 years* so if you’ve been chemically or surgically castrated, living without sex hormones while you wait would put you at all sorts of harm, which we know from
women who have experienced early onset menopause for other reasons, such as cancer.

Trans activists bang on about how blockers are harmless and reversible because those that are treated with them for precocious puberty go through natal puberty after they stop, but there doesn’t seem to be any data for those who have had their puberty blocked and then been given cross sex hormones, the young people who are detransitioning now, like Keira, are guinea pigs. Or at least, they would be if anyone was even interested in what consequences are. As far as I can work out, these are the cases that have been recorded as ‘lost to follow up’. It’s fucking outrageous.

Dr Johanna Olson-Kennedy, medical director of the Centre for Transyouth Health and Development at the Children's Hospital Los Angeles. By her own admission she has regularly issued hormones to children as young as 12. She is critical of mental health assessments for children who say they want to change sex. She stated that she wouldn't send a child diagnosed with diabetes to a therapist before starting them on insulin, so why a child who wanted puberty blockers?

Most shockingly, when asked about the irreversibility of actions she was encouraging children to take: "Here's the thing about chest surgery, if you want breasts at a later point in your life you can go and get them."

The above is from Douglas Murray's "The Madness of Crowds".

I find it really hard to articulate my response to this insanity. It's frightening to think that those who have articulated a reasonable and well-thought out response, which centres the psychological and physical well being of the child, are being hounded out of jobs and screeched at on social media as transphobes.

As others have said, the multi million dollar law suits coming down the line in the US will start to address this madness. But the damage being done in the meantime is terrifying.

She stated that she wouldn't send a child diagnosed with diabetes to a therapist before starting them on insulin, so why a child who wanted puberty blockers?

FFS, what a mendacious, deceptive comparison. A Type 1 diabetic, which is what most children with diabetes have, would die without insulin As in within a couple of weeks.

Another point Murray makes is that if trans activists were really interested in helping the truly oppressed and vulnerable, they would have started with people born intersex. These people potentially face for greater stigmatisation and unhappiness by virtue of their condition.

But I guess this isn't as "sexy" an issue for, say, a young privileged
articulate student clamouring for their space on the top of the oppressed list, because they are undergoing some very normal questions about their sexuality, place in society, body image etc. Or a middle aged autogynaephyllic who wants his fetish validated publically, particularly by adult human females.

Of course both these groups would also have to read up on those pesky things called facts, to be able to comment properly. But that of course isn't the point. It's about their feelings and telling people that what they say is enough to be accepted.

She stated that she wouldn't send a child diagnosed with diabetes to a therapist before starting them on insulin, so why a child who wanted puberty blockers?

Uh, because there are objective diagnostic tests for diabetes, you absolutely loon, Olsen!

You wouldn’t give a kid drugs simply because they sincerely felt that they had diabetes and really wanted insulin, would you?