Interesting interview. Transwoman interviews a detransitioning FtM (so back to female)

[CherryValance]

Both are able to discuss the issue calmly and respectfully. It's very refreshing. The host is a transwoman who is very happy with her own path, but is against children transitioning, and is clear that because the choice was right for her, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Her guest began testosterone at 16, and began to detransition at 19 or 20. Her main regret is the effect the hormones have had on her voice, and she does indeed sound very male, unlike Blaire (host), who has achieved a convincing female tone. If you closed your eyes you would absolutely get the birth sexes the wrong way round.

Blaire also mentions that she's noticed an increase in detransition stories, and accepts that many within the trans community have traditionally been unhappy about accepting that it happens.

I thought they both came across very well, and I was glad that Elle felt positive about the future, though sad that she went down a wrong path, at least she's not also regretting surgery.

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=287&v=tPBLyb8H_iE&feature=emb_logo

It really highlights WHY affirmation and rushing down a medical transition route is so wrong. I am sad for Elle's regret, she does sound very male and has a visible adams apple. Does this mean her only option for re-establishing a female sounding voice is surgery? Or is it lost for ever?

It is interesting that both Blair and Elle were saying that more detransition stories were starting to be seen publicly. If that doesn't give those in power pause for thought with regards to the issue, I don't know what will.

So true, young people are not able to make adult decisions, they don't know everything that transitioning entails. They should wait until they are adult instead of making permanent changes such as medical transition when they are 16/17 etc.

I wonder if her voice will ever go back?

I wish the interviewer would stop looking at herself in the other screen though, it's so off-putting. She is overly concerned with how she looks, pouting her lips, re adjusting her hair, she should be listening. Slightly self obsessed I think.

But being male, Blaire has to perform femininity. On screen Blaire passes very well in my opinion. Blaire has also said that she is aware that she is male and is not a TWAW person, more a TWATW person. I am not sure how I would react to Blaire White if we met IRL and whether I would still read 'male' - but I suspect not.

I do think Blaire is very conscious of appearance and performance, hence the constant preening and checking.

Isn't Blaire a YouTuber who makes money selling beauty products etc? I have to say that many women doing the same are awfully prone to the same preening and checking themselves.

Elle giving a more in-depth account of her experiences (without the Blaire hair-swishing). First, her desire to transition was triggered by online misogyny, seeing porn online, and by an older man sexually harassing her online.

This video is more about the effects of hormones on Elle/ her de-transition experience.

She comes across as an incredibly grounded, self-aware and intelligent young woman. I hope she can put this experience behind her and have the bright future she deserves.

more a TWATW person.

But what does that mean in reality, in practice? Does she use female toilets (like women)? Legally what sex is she? Or could she be.

The problem with TWATW is that it isn’t a legal sex category.

The problem with TWATW is that it isn’t a legal sex category.

It could be, if TRAs genuinely advocated for it in good faith. There are countries that have implemented a 'third gender' for trans people. Having separate legal categories for trans women and trans men would ultimately benefit trans people in the long-term by giving them a well defined category with protections and provisions. Policies can be developed around such a legal category. Government agencies can keep track of stats like employment, pay, housing etc to determine if there are structural prejudices and inequalities that prevent trans people from being hired or promoted and so on. I'm still baffled by how short sighted the entire trans movement is in the West.

I don't particularly care for OTT performed femininity in any context. But Blaire seems like a nice person who has spent a lot of time reflecting on their course in life and is at peace.

Poor Elle. 80 percent of those who transition as children desist. So many children have Elle's situation of a permanently-altered body in their future. Awful.

Fieldofgreycorn Blaire does use female toilets. But does not use changing rooms or other places where their penis might be seen, since Blaire recognises that this would be inappropriate. There are several videos about this on Blaire's channel.

Blaire does use female toilets. But does not use changing rooms or other places where their penis might be seen, since Blaire recognises that this would be inappropriate.

Agree with that completely. Each situation needs to be dealt with in a proportionate and appropriate way.

Isn't Blaire a YouTuber who makes money selling beauty products etc?

No. Blaire has Blaire related products for sale because she has become a celebrity in her own right, but she became well known for what she had to say, not to sell.

Blaire has recently spoken in support of JK Rowling and Maya Forstater. She regularly speaks out against transitioning of children; cotton ceiling, drag kids, etc, etc, etc. And of course played a part in the downfall of Yaniv.

White is a right wing, libertarian yet much of what she says would find approval here. Her approach to life is a free speech, libertarian, anti- social justice warrior stance - feminists attract ire as much as any other group.

She herself is regularly accused of being transphobic. I like her.

I'm not particularly impressed by the snide comments by some of you about "preening" etc. She does- so what? Some gay men do it too. Blaire is vain about her appearance and cares about what she looks like - again- so what? It's part of her personality.

Perhaps try listening to what she has to say?

Isn't Blaire a YouTuber who makes money selling beauty products etc?

No. Blaire has Blaire related products for sale and to be clear the merchandise is hoodies, t- shirts, mugs, not make up.

In Elle's own video, the comment section is awash with other young woman who also identified as trans, before desisting.
How the fuck do those therapists get away with this bullshit. Ellie's one was on board from day one!

The bubble has got to burst soon, surely?

I wasn't making snide comments, I was being observant, I dislike YouTube and only watch things when checking my DDs browser history. I hate all the hair styling & makeup tutorials she watches. I've watched a bit of Blaire's stuff when she is discussing JY though and have felt sorry for her (Blaire that is and yes I respect her pronoun).

Your comments come across as extremrly snide and judgemental - "preening"?

And what on earth has this coment got to do with Blaire? Blaire neither gives make up tutorials or sells make-up.

I dislike YouTube and only watch things when checking my DDs browser history. I hate all the hair styling & makeup tutorials she watches

I thought that's what she did...? So I'd not looked at her content, based on that assumption and that I wasn't interested in that type of thing, people (I) do get things wrong...

I think the TWATW attitude is refreshing. I like that Cate McGregor eventually came to that conclusion - kudos and respect to her, but she's been shunned by the Oz media and called a transphobe.

I really feel for the de-transitioner. I know that vocal coaching is included as part of NHS' mtf offering. Wondering if it would help her, although she has so much else to cope with.

I thought that's what she did...? So I'd not looked at her content, based on that assumption

A common mistake made by a certain type of feminist is that anyone who is pretty, cares about their appearance or even is vain (which BW undoubtedly is) must be an air head not capable of higher thoughts beyond make-up.

BW has a lot to say about trans issues , free speech and safeguarding of children and is well worth listening to.

Oh get off your high horse. Hair swishing is distracting and annoying, whether it's carried out by men, women, trans women or premiership footballers. The only entity that can hair swish and not be annoying is a horse (maybe not the high variety, though).

Blaire is great, I never miss one of her videos. She's sharp and funny, and her work exposing Yaniv was brilliant. But she does do performance femininity, and one of her beefs with many transactivists is that they are not trying hard enough to be feminine. Rose of Dawn (who I also really like and follow), has similar views of the "they're not even trying to be a woman" variety. I find this distracts from my own view that no amount of trying will make any of them a woman. And that if we could just accept that the bandwidth of "man" can include dresses, make up, long hair, and all the another things pejoratively seen as "girly - because none of that defines a woman - then young men in particular can be free to follow their personalities without having to jump on this destructive bandwagon. And non feminine girls can just be themselves without feeling like they are not proper women, because both sexes can dress the same and still be of their sex. If you bothered to watch Elle's video, this sort of pornified look was one of the factors that drove her down the trans route.

And I'm saying this as a total clothes horse myself, who is very into the way I look/dress.

Anyway, good job detracting from Elle's story. The actual reason I posted her videos was because she talks in far greater depth about her experiences in those videos than in Blaire's brief interview.

If you do search for detransition videos, as Blaire suggests, you see these are almost always young women detransitioning, like Elle. It's incredibly sad.

Hmmm. Wasn't searching for this but it just appeared on GC Facebook page. according to Blaire's friend, "all txxfs look like men". Didn't watch to the end.

Wow midcenturylegs ! That video deserves a thread of its own. That's me told about Blaire. Eyes are now wide open.

So Blaire (not just the friend) thinks "all txxrfs look like men" . Blaire also thinks, "I'm convinced txxrfs are txxrfs because they once dated a man who cheated on them with a transwoman."

And, "I'm always confused when people who aren't trans make transpeople the entire focus of their lives." Well that's most people on FWR then!

The rest of the video was vile. They were laughing at a natal woman who doesn't perform femininity and is anti trans. Blaire wants to punch her.

Just re my previous post about the hair swishing. I just want LuisaRey , who thinks were are a "certain type of feminist" (whatever that means) without knowing any of us, to also remember that Blaire's Youtube channel is also Blaire's place of work. Blaire considers themself to be a political commentator. Well, ok, swish away when you are monologuing to camera, but don't expect to be taken seriously while you are doing it. And if you are conducting an interview, it is distracting and pretty rude to be checking yourself out the whole time your guest is talking about a really painful subject. I can't imagine Emily Maitliss doing this.

"The only entity that can hair swish and not be annoying is a horse (maybe not the high variety, though)."

Tbh I don't know much about feminism - I just know what makes me feel uncomfortable - the hair swishing stuff reminds me of "you deserve it" ads and that sort of thing is what I am deeply troubled about. I know plenty of people have said this before but I really do feel that the focus and pressure on teen girls to look like this is eroding away at their self-worth. I know so many young teen girls via my DD who obsess over the way they look. Eating disorders, trans, NBs.. None of them KNOW that it is OK to not have long shiny hair, be slim, wear the "uniform". There doesn't seem to be any room for self-expression without labelling themselves as trans etc.

Jessica have started a new thread..

Good posts Jessica.

And that if we could just accept that the bandwidth of "man" can include dresses, make up, long hair, and all the another things pejoratively seen as "girly - because none of that defines a woman - then young men in particular can be free to follow their personalities without having to jump on this destructive bandwagon.

I also would like to see our culture get away from this idea that different interests in gender presentation - which really coes down to style and mannerisms in a lot of people - mean we have to change sex, or are somehow different than others.

At the same time, I'm not sure that would make any difference to some people who are like Blair White. Or for that matter, like the transwoman I know who transitioned in the late 70s and is the old type of transexual but is also not into performing femininity and would not be caught dead swishing hair. I don't know that they are either just interested in doing things coded "feminine", that isn't my sense, at all.