Scottish Census

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

This morning NatRecordsScot are giving evidence on plans for the 2021 census to SP_European. Convener JoanMcAlpine asks which data users have requested guidance for the sex question that instructs users to answer based on their self-declared gender identity.

Thread unroll here:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1215207756107603969.html

What really stood out for me is that they wouldn't say who had requested the changes to the sex question

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1215207756107603969.html

Clicky link

They seem to be repeating the same conversations at regular intervals, pointing out the same dodgy practice, getting the same hedged answers, but it all continues to be pushed on.

They're determined they're going to do it anyway.

If the word 'cis' appears anywhere on a census form that turns up through my letter box I will be boycotting.

When Joan said there may be a campaign not to answer the sex question if it's based on self-id - you can count on it! Starting with me.

If the word 'cis' appears anywhere on a census form that turns up through my letter box I will be boycotting.

Apparently during the testing 3% of people said they may not answer a question based on self ID of sex - surely that would really mess the statistics up?

1 will boycott cis anything

Yeah and why can’t the names of the groups who had an input into this

Why are the names not to be released to us ?

Why are they hiding stuff

I'm just watching it now - it's really clear that NRS want a self ID sex question no matter what. There is really good evidence that this is a bad idea, yet their representative fails to provide any evidence as to why this question should be self IDd

Apart that is from the rather laughable argument that as people fill in the census themselves all the questions are self ID and always have been.

Well if they reach a stalemate of

position A: 'if we don't provide validation of personally selected identities x% will get stroppy and boycott'

and position B: 'if sex ceases to be a fact and becomes a list of self identities for some with compulsory and coercive c*ssing of others then x% of women will boycott and x% people who can't make head nor tail of niche politicised language, have no clue what's being asked of them and get it wrong, overall leading to x% of answers being fucked up',

I'll be glad to hear the solution. If any information can be fictional then it might as well all be fictional, it becomes a waste of public money and political gesturing that as a tax payer I thoroughly resent and won't co operate with.

Yeah and why can’t the names of the groups who had an input into this

^Why are the names not to be released to us ?
^^
^Why are they hiding stuff

Not really in line with the overall transparency agenda, is it?

Apart that is from the rather laughable argument that as people fill in the census themselves all the questions are self ID and always have been.

And that's exactly how seriously many people will take the whole thing in future. This undermines the reliability of the entire dataset, something which has always relied on trust that people will answer truthfully.

If the question is "what is your sex?" and the guidance is "enter your gender identity" then what do you put if you don't have a gender identity?

Luckily I'm not in Scotland, but I could answer it truthfully with 'none'.

I still don't really understand how think this sort of data is useful to anyone.... Unless that is the point?

If any information can be fictional then it might as well all be fictional, it becomes a waste of public money and political gesturing that as a tax payer I thoroughly resent and won't co operate with
This with bells on.
If I'm going to lie or leave the question on gender, I may as well lie on the whole damn lot.
Who has asked this lot about funding for any group even 3 spirit penguins if enough people say that's what they are.

Thinking on
So if every possible person would identify as a 4 toed sloth, 4 toed sloths will get funding, special funding. Probably more funding than women even?
Just a thought.

Is self-ID limited to gender?

Can one be a minor Deity, or a kelpie?

Well it's an internal feeling earnestly felt.
Therefore I'm a flipping starfish right?

If national statistics and documentation are considering abandoning belief that biological sex exists then a change so radically fundamental should be put to the electorate. There is no mandate for this. None.

It really is fascinating that lots and lots of named academics in relevant fields are against this, yet NRS insists it is best practice to go for self ID yet can't describe how they came to this conclusion.

I suspect because the only answer they've got is 'regulatory capture'.

What are we supposed to do with non-sex-based sex information?

I need to know what sex people are. Not what sex they think they ought to be.

Like... seriously... NOBODY who uses the data will be helped by this.

NOBODY.

And the scary thing is that'll be years of data down the drain - pretty much everything is disaggregated by sex - once you can't tell what sex someone is the data becomes useless.

Also, does the NRS really not understand the ramifications of fucking up longitudinal data that goes back to the 1800s?