"Most prolific" rapist reporting - male vs female victims

[QuentinWinters]

Was just reading that about the conviction of the "most prolific rapist" for raping over 100 men.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50987823

My impression was the reporting focused more on the impact on his victims and used much stronger language about him being a "monster" who preyed on men "just out to have fun with their friends" than reporting on rapists targeting women. There is a description of how being raped has ruined the male victims lives (previously I associated the terms "ruined life" with men who were found not guilty of rape).

So I looked up reporting on John Worboys as he came to mind as a similarly prolific rapist

In his initial reporting it is more focused on Worboys and describes him crying at the guilty verdict.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/england/london/7931975.stm

Later reporting as the scale of his offending has become clear is still much more focussed on Worboys and his reasons for raping, and more objective and factual about his MO with no discussion of the emotional impact on his victims.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-48702572

Seems like rapes of men are treated much more sympathetically than those of women. Quelle surprise.

Thank goodness. She should never have had to go through any of it. And her rapists still escape justice.

I too have noticed a marked difference in the way this has been reported, the lack of "what were these silly men thinking when they accepted an invitation back to a man's home", and "silly men getting drunk and losing their friends", nothing about their outfits, sexual history, their alleged enjoyment of rough "degrading" sex etc.

Maybe the fact that it seems to have been a few women journalists who have been reporting on it and sitting through the trials means they have a more sympathetic perspective and actually report on it properly?

I hope the men get all the help and support they need.

I share stories like this on my personal Facebook page. Whenever I share stories about female victims of male violence I get so many comments of NAMALT and whataboutery. There's one particular commenter who likes to make sure I know that female violence towards males is just as high. Males suffer more (suicide etc). I can easily get into the 100+ comments.

I share stories about male victims of male violence too. Including this one. 1 comment. That's it. 1 comment. And the people that do the NAMALTing/whataboutery? Nothing, no where to be seen.

I hope the victims get the support they need and the perpetrator suffers accordingly to the law.

If the situation were reversed, this thread would be accused of WATMing. 100%.

Home Secretary Priti Patel said in response to Sinaga's "truly sickening crimes" she had asked an independent council to prioritise a review into whether controls for drugs like GHB were "tough enough".
GHB (gammahydroxybutyrate) is a class C drug. Anyone found in possession of it can be imprisoned for up to two years.

^ quote from BBC coverage.
If the government reaction to male rape is strong enough to get these very dangerous drugs - which for a long time have been specifically referred to as ‘date rape’ drugs -because they incapacitate people then leave little trace - then that will be a greater protection for everyone. Make these drugs class A. They’re used as weapons.

I share stories like this on my personal Facebook page. Whenever I share stories about female victims of male violence I get so many comments of NAMALT and whataboutery

in a similar vein on IWD i spend time tweeting about "women's issues" and resources and so on. And get accused of "not caring about men". Except that on IMD i do similar - especially with resources about men's mental health. And do i get comments from women about not caring about women? Nope. I get support, retweets, additional info and agreement.

What i hope the reporting of this case brings is a concerted effort by everyone to hold journalists and other news outlets to similar high standards.

And absolutely, yes, to include information about how to report to the police and victim aid resources too. Every time. (to be fair the BBC often do that after sensitive story lines in dramas too)

Sorry, but this is not a male vs female thing.

This case had a very specific MO and scale, and a very specific outcome, due to the police being incredibly clear evidence from his phone. I am not aware of any case like it involving female victims.

In this case there was no uncertainty. No need for anyone to consider whether the victim did or didn't consent. No speculation on whether the victim 'asked for it' because it was 100% clear from the outset, once those videos were seen.

If the case had been identical but with female victims, there's no reason to think that the reporting would be any different or any less sympathetic to the victims. If anything I think it would be reported even more sympathetically.

I've only read the report in the Times this morning, which seems quite objective.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/most-prolific-rapist-reynhard-sinaga-jailed-for-life-for-raping-195-men-8g5p0t78k?shareToken=cfa5bb0445fdcceec581225c5f54516c

This morning on LBC they were still talking about how the young woman in Cyprus "should take responsibility" for putting herself in danger. It's the "silly girl" narrative, which wipes away the crime. It's natural that women will want to highlight the difference between the way male / female victims of rape are treated. It's a devastating case, for those men, and I hope they're OK.

The reporting on this case has, rightly, been respectful and sympathetic to the male victims. All we're asking is that the same respect and sympathy be accorded to female victims of rape. How difficult can that be to understand?

Other interesting things about this case. Obviously the media blackout on reporting, because they decided to hold four trials so that 48 victims could give evidence, which seems highly unusual, and puzzling.

Also the fact that only one victim (the last one) was aware that he'd been attacked. None of the others apparently had any idea. If you'd been raped, wouldn't there be some physical evidence of the fact? That seems strange. (Not casting doubt, obviously, just interested.)

Also: the police only knew about the number of rapes because he'd videoed the evidence. Otherwise he could quite easily have got away with these crimes in perpetuity. This to me is the most chilling aspect. How many rapists are there at large drugging victims, male or female, and raping them without their knowledge?

The reporting on this case has, rightly, been respectful and sympathetic to the male victims. All we're asking is that the same respect and sympathy be accorded to female victims of rape. How difficult can that be to understand?

Exactly. It’s conspicuous in its unconditional sympathy for the victims (and quite rightly).

No caveats. No subtext of victim blaming - ‘but the men were drinking and agreed to go back to his flat’. (Did we even get to find out what the men were wearing at the time of their rapes?)

It’s how all rapes should be reported.

But it’s only how straight male rapes are reported.

someone on the AIBU thread made the point that so far there haven't been blurry CCTV pictures/films of the victims going back to the rapist's flat - although that's quite a staple from reporting on women/gay male rapes.

Funny how the government are now looking into GHB now that it’s been used to rape hundreds of men. But when women are drugged and raped it’s the “silly girl” narrative, isn’t it?

Because it must be dangerous stuff if it can be used to incapacitate blokes and not weak, vulnerable women who’ve made bad choices on a night out.

I’m obviously not saying a government review is wrong - it’s a long time coming. But as ever, it’s only a problem once it affects men.

Exactly. It’s conspicuous in its unconditional sympathy for the victims (and quite rightly).

No caveats. No subtext of victim blaming - ‘but the men were drinking and agreed to go back to his flat’. (Did we even get to find out what the men were wearing at the time of their rapes?)

It’s how all rapes should be reported.

But it’s only how straight male rapes are reported.

EXACTLY this. This is precisely the issue. If these victims were female, we'd have had all manner of people suggesting that the women were silly for getting so drunk they were thrown out of a club, losing their friends, talking to a man and then accepting the offer of going back to his flat with a lot of "well, what did you think he was after? A nice chat?". Also lots of footage showing how they willingly walked back with him, chatting and smiling and not-at-all distressed (there have been loads of examples of this with women).

But because these are straight men, they are not subjected to the same. And that is why this is an issue that we need to talk about.

I even heard on Radio 4 this morning the headline "the woman who claims she was coerced into sex", rather than the much more clear "claims she was raped by 12 men". The double standards are shocking.

If these victims were female, we'd have had all manner of people suggesting that the women were silly for getting so drunk they were thrown out of a club, losing their friends, talking to a man and then accepting the offer of going back to his flat

This is so striking in this case, men are not expected to practise the type of situational awareness that women have drummed in to them from an early age. Reading the AIBU thread, it's clear that a lot of the horror that this case has caused stems from the fact that these young lads were just on a normal night out. It's absolutely no different for many female rape victims, but the victim blaming is so internalised that it's shocking when you strip away the usual "what were they thinking of to put themselves in such a risky scenario" knee jerk response.

I think we should start by sending complaints every time we hear the words “forced sex” or “co-erced sex”.

This is so striking in this case, men are not expected to practise the type of situational awareness that women have drummed in to them from an early age.

Unfortunately the main take-away from this (because you can be sure someone, somewhere is thinking what a good idea it is) is that we have to drum this awareness into the men in our lives too, now.

I seem to have lost the AIBU thread

Or has it been removed...

the title has been changed:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3788470-The-tone-of-the-coverage-of-the-Reynhard-Sinaga-case-Title-edited-by-MNHQ?msgid=92917408

God yes Brefugee that's so depressing. Not "how do we tackle the issue of men raping people"

Thank you Brefugee.

It's a shame this case was conducted behind closed doors and concluded before people could comment on it.
I don't suppose anyone got a chance to ask "why did they go back to his flat?" because the case was done and dusted before anyone heard of it.
However, I did hear that the defence tried to argue that the victims consented, that they were secretly gay and in the closet, that the videos were part of a sex game played by consenting adults.
In addition, the only one to report it was disbelieved.
So there may have been many similarities with female victim cases.

deydododatdodontdeydo

Great username - are you from Liverpool by any chance?

No, haha. I just remembered The Scousers when I was trying to think up a username.