Dr Jessica Taylor on men wanting a "strong independent woman".

[ahumanfemale]

A bit of balsam this Sunday afternoon.

victimfocus.wordpress.com/2020/01/04/dear-men-so-you-think-you-want-a-strong-independent-woman/?fbclid=IwAR1jDvAcXOOOnyZcYkZITVnJyHt1yoidStDK9JAOFEmcIsIeWUncnz1NgjE

I really enjoyed that.
I have met a lot of men who are 'turned on' by 'strong, independent, FEISTY' women. And the very way they say it makes you go 'urgh'.

It's a good article. Some of the comments are rage inducing though!

Nicely written.

Article fab.

Comments. Jesus wept.

I like the general gist of it, but there are a few phrases that I’m not sure about:

The ‘strong, independent woman’ you want is very likely to put you in your place when you step out of line

I don’t think anyone should be thinking about putting anyone ‘in their place’.

Yeah I'd not come across this fetishist until recently. It was slightly differently enacted, but he was getting off on my feminine strength (and I think he even called it something like that). Took me a while to understand what was going on!

Before that I'd only come across the dirt who just wanted to crush it out of me, one way or another: I love that you're so independent and strong, now submit.

*sort, not dirt, but that is an epic Freudian-slip type of autocorrect!

Those comments. Wow. Some men really get pissed off when women say no, huh.

I think the worst comments were from women. Calling the writer a bitter shrew.

I like the general gist of it, but there are a few phrases that I’m not sure about.

Me too. I rolled my eyes a bit at She will be the ‘mouthy, outspoken’ young woman arguing about politics online, out-classing everyone who tries to belittle and humiliate her.

The above sounded a bit like an insight into how the above 'mouthy' woman might view herself, but it just conjured images of those try and shout down others - "You don't want to share your changing rooms? Bigot!"

in one or the comments 'However, clearly you seem to think of yourself as an independent woman and I invite you to come to Johannesburg, South Africa and engage me in a dialogue, independent woman to mature man. Or does that scare you?'

that's not creepy at all...

I had seen some comments on FB for it but not these. Fucking hell.
'However, clearly you seem to think of yourself as an independent woman and I invite you to come to Johannesburg, South Africa and engage me in a dialogue, independent woman to mature man. Or does that scare you?'
What is that supposed up be other than a threat.

When will it end, really. I'm beyond fed up of being looked at like I'm a man-hater if I speak about these sorts of things being said. We're supposed to ignore them and treat them as if NAMALT but where are the "good guys" on threads like that calling these, apparently limited in number, arseholes out?

Tumbleweed.

Yet "we" hate men.

She will be the ‘mouthy, outspoken’ young woman arguing about politics online, out-classing everyone who tries to belittle and humiliate her.
This was a perfect description of how I and every other woman who posted under a female name or avatar has always been treated by men on the political blogs.

I found the article a bit cringe inducing tbh. I feel like she has a set vision of an independent woman, if that makes any sense?

She can't very well share someone else's vision of an independent woman, now can she?

No, Creepster, but I’m wondering if anyone else felt as I did.

I feel like she has a set vision of an independent woman, if that makes any sense?

It does to me. I believe that the worst parts of modern political and activist division stem from people assuming that, given a reasonable baseline of intelligence, personal confidence and experience, an individual could only reach one conclusion. It's poisonous because those that hold that assumption are then forced into the conclusion that people who don't share their beliefs are either deliberately working against their cause; are too foolish to understand or view themselves as morally and/or intellectually superior.

I found the article a bit cringe inducing tbh. I feel like she has a set vision of an independent woman, if that makes any sense?

I agree. I thought it was largely a set of sweeping generalisations.

I think it bizarre to criticize a woman's opinion piece for containing the woman's opinion.

I suppose she'd prefer the men should all just go back to wanting weak, needy women?

I don't really know who she thinks she's writing to, but it sounds like the women she's writing about aren't particularly nice people to know, anyway.

I think it bizarre to criticize a woman's opinion piece for containing the woman's opinion

Why? She was putting out what she thought was an opinion which deserved being listened to. She takes the risk some readers won't agree.

Some women aren't nice to know? Seriously?!

Last time I checked women "being nice" is what underlies a lot of problems we as a class experience. Perhaps not being very "nice" is a) objective anyway and b) actually quite liberating!

Can't like everybody, or be liked by everybody, anyway!

It was meant to be a rant so I read it as such. Nothing in it seemed particularly revelatory to me.

Is it still uncommon for women and men these days to do their own laundry in relationships? I've had two partners I've lived with and I've never done the laundry for either. I might occasionally hang up his washing if he forgets and vice versa.

My partner and I have our own separate bedrooms and bathrooms. And it's our own responsibility to keep our rooms clean.

Some people think we are weird, others are trying to hint to their own partners to do the same based on our example.
Ideally I'd rather we live in separate properties but close by, however, for now cohabiting makes pragmatic and economic sense. When I buy a house, it will be in my name only.

I do quite a few things with my partner, but I also still go dancing by myself (i.e without any company, not even friends) or to the theatre, gigs, restaurants.
I really love my own company and solitude and independence; and I enjoy being absorbed in my own interests. I don't see why such an inclination makes a person not nice.

Is it still uncommon for women and men these days to do their own laundry in relationships? I've had two partners I've lived with and I've never done the laundry for either. I might occasionally hang up his washing if he forgets and vice versa

I've never done my husband's laundry in over 30 years. He will hang mine up if it's to be dried inside on a clothes horse because my "drag it out and dump it in a pile method" infuriates him. I might have deliberately been worse than I need be at this task as I hate doing it.

I do loads of things on my own (concerts, theatres, travel).

It's not clear to me who the writer's target audience was. It wasn't really men.

Some women aren't nice to know? Seriously?!

Yeah, it's as likely as men who aren't nice to know. She's basically described someone self-centered who has no real interest in being in a relationship.

Though FWIW I think her portrait is a pretty fictionalised one, and has little to do with being strong or independent.