Setting up book club / discussion group re. Radical Feminism

[LoveCompost]

Hi, our local library appears to have been ‘captured’ by Stonewall allies . Drag Queen Story Time , Pride flags flying for weeks , LGBTIQ reading group .. I’m wondering if a good way to balance this out is to start a book group focussing on feminist issues ? The proper kind ! I’d be grateful for any advice here as I haven’t a clue and I’m a new feminist too so am unsure as to whether I’d have the confidence to actually be the lead but I don’t mind being the name .

Why is it such an issue for you that a group of women want to meet to talk about women’s issues? Why would anyone who is not a woman be so invested in joining that? Are women not permitted to have ANY male free spaces? That’s a very misogynistic and creepy viewpoint.

It's none of those things. It's just how libraries work. They strive to be inclusive and welcoming to all members of the community. They have bye-laws and guidelines that emphasise this inclusiveness.

Just like we have to follow Mumsnet's guidelines if you want to post here, then you have to follow libraries' rules if you want to use their facilities.

You can have your male-free space elsewhere, who is stopping you? But, your local library is not going to be that space. Libraries are for everybody.

It's just how libraries work. They strive to be inclusive and welcoming to all members of the community.

It may be how you would like libraries to work, but thankfully neither of my local libraries are that bullying and bigoted towards women.

You’re wrong you know. You might wish to be right, but you’re completely wrong. Nice try.

Just because you want something to be true, you can't make it so by disagreeing loudly and stamping your foot.

You are using the word Inclusive, but you don’t actually think that feminism should be permitted unless it’s the dick sucking type.

I don't care what you do in your spare time as long as it's legal and consensual.

I know that you think I'm the wrong sort of feminist, but that's absolutely irrelevant to the application of library bye-laws.

Why is it that some males get angry when they are told no?

Breastfeeding support groups, post natal depression groups, too, are exclusionary as they're female only. Why is it so hard to accept that women want spaces where we can be women on our own? It's not the end of the world if everybody isn't admitted to every last space everywhere.

I don't think this needs to be a debate really, most public libraries have quite specific policies on groups that meet using their space. Anyone who wants to use the ibrary in that way should be careful to make sure they understand the policy and that it will be in line with what they want to do.

As an example, you could possibly have a group to discuss Christian books, but you probably could not actually exclude non-Christians from the group. On the other hand programs directed to specific need groups are usually ok, especially if their needs are very specific, like children, or English language learners.

You might also be able to get around some of this by paying to use library space as a private group.

Okay, ebooks, can you point me to these bye laws, please?

Well that sounds great in theory

As long as you’re aware you have no idea of the views of anyone attending

I’d so love to join a rad fem group now but it would have to be private for me to feel safe.

Have you thought about setting up a group on meetup.com? I've been in book clubs before and sometimes a library is not the best place anyway. The opening hours can be quite limited and there can be less chance for socialising before and after the official book club part. A not-too-noisy place like a bar can be good. You could have a fixed venue or rotate around a few.

I've been consulting with the legal brain of the house about this: we did some research and found some useful bits. Assuming you would have less than 25 members you would be exempt from the rules governing associations:

"A book club run by a group of friends which has no formal rules governing admittance or whose membership is less than 25 is not an association for the purposes of this Part."
Explanatory Notes of Primary Legislation/UK Acts/2010/EQUALITY ACT 2010/PART 7:
ASSOCIATIONS/Examples

Also the Equality Act allows for single characteristic clubs:

Single characteristic associations

(1) An association does not contravene section 101(1) by restricting membership to persons who share a protected characteristic.

(2) An association that restricts membership to persons who share a protected characteristic does not breach section 101(3) by restricting the access by associates to a benefit, facility or service to such persons as share the characteristic.
SCHEDULE 16 Associations: Exceptions
Section 107

It's a shame we are having to use the law to defend the idea of having a women's book club!

Also, not sure posters aren’t making assumptions but I thought OP wanted to be in charge of the book choice, not to police the attendees?

Yes eBooks, at last, you finally said it.

And in this case some of your feminists may be self-selecting women or men who are (or think they are) feminists.

It's a shame we are having to use the law to defend the idea of having a women's book club!

Yes. But at the same time, it's reassuring to know that. Thank you.

I went to a feminist discussion group once - it was completely derailed by a transwoman. As i left i wondered what the point of it was as we hadn't discussed anything besides the film Wonder Woman

This was very libfem though.

Why is it that some males get angry when they are told no?
I have no idea, last time I checked I had a mostly functioning female anatomy. Are you rather unsubtly suggesting otherwise? Because that's against MN's guidelines isn't it?

Breastfeeding support groups, post natal depression groups, too, are exclusionary as they're female only.

Indeed they are, and if you advertised these as a library activity you'd probably only get xx chromomed peopke who'd given birth attending.

Why is it so hard to accept that women want spaces where we can be women on our own? It's not the end of the world if everybody isn't admitted to every last space everywhere.

Because there is no reason to exclude men or transwomen from a reading group in a library that reads feminist texts. There is nothing inherently female about wanting to read, discuss and learn from a feminist text. They are not the sacred texts of a religion. They are interesting pieces of writing that can be accessed by everyone.

If you want to have a women (as defined by MN (tm) ) -only reading group then do it in a pub, a hired room, a cafe, a park or a hot-air balloon, but not a community library.

Let's just call it a womens book club run by women, for women, 25 women meeting at the local library.
Then when Brenda from accounts wants to join we'll shift ourselves over to Costa coffee forthwith before the library staff get a look in.

If the library already hosts a LGBTIQ reading group then there is no reason why a feminist reading group shouldn't be accommodated. Presumably if you set up your own group you'd be hiring a room so library staff wouldn't be directly involved in running it. Multiple copies of non fiction may be difficult but feminist fiction should be available.
It's a library's duty to cater for everyone by providing diverse stock and activities rather than one size fits all.

You took your time ebooks.

Okay, ebooks, can you point me to these bye laws, please?

I'm sure you can search for your local library bye-laws yourself or pop in and ask to read them,

Every council will have different bye-laws, and will also have an accumulated accretion of more modern guidelines and community -inclusive policy.

If the library already hosts a LGBTIQ reading group then there is no reason why a feminist reading group shouldn't be accommodated. Presumably if you set up your own group you'd be hiring a room so library staff wouldn't be directly involved in running it. Multiple copies of non fiction may be difficult but feminist fiction should be available. it's a library's duty to cater for everyone by providing diverse stock and activities rather than one size fits all

Absolutely correct, but a feminist book group is not necessarily a women-only book group. And you may end up with 25 different editions of a text that have taken over a month to arrive from all corners of an inter-library loan system

I'm off to read something interesting now. Good night. It's been awfully slow here over the holidays hasn't it?

Lol

There is no problem with a women only group. We've had women's health groups, women's refuge groups, men's reading groups, teenage, etc etc all meeting at the library. A library that allowed an LBG etc etc but refused a women's group would be in breach of the Equalities Act.

Imnobody4
Bravo, well said, good timing and thankyou.

eBooksAreBooks
There is nothing in the Revised Model Library Byelaws for England Template (August 2017) for public libraries that supports the view that single-sex associations would be excluded from holding meetings in those facilities.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/local-byelaws