Domestic Violence shown as humour...

[SpongeBobJudgeyPants]

TV on in background, this morning. Old film, 'Holiday on the buses' is on. I realise this is a pile of misogynistic crap, but I actually saw Olive's 'D'H strike her in the scene where the luggage falls off the motorbike into the river, as he blamed her for stopping him suddenly. Even in its time (70's) how did this pass for humour? How was it allowed to be shown, without at least cutting that bit out? I realise it was a terrible series, but I had never seen that bit before. Anyone else? And why are tv channels (ITV3 in this case) showing this shit? The idea that 'they were different times' just doesn't it, does it?

Yes it was very funny back then and still is.
Olive was put upon, her husband was a prick, their marriage was a disaster yet they were hilarious.

Just like the comedy routines of Ricky Gervais, Peter Kay, Jo Brand and all the others.

Comedy, it gives us a laugh.

Arthur gives her a back hander and it's funny?

It’s true you hardly ever see men hitting women in comedies today. You see a lot of women hitting men though. My times have changed.

It made me think of Andy Capp, but apparently he's not the man he was (per the Wikipedia article about the strip):

"Andy no longer beats his wife, because of concerns about the depiction of domestic violence; instead, Andy and Florrie now attend marriage counselling."

And, uh, thinking of the influence of media presentations on young minds--Punch and Judy? And it's fun?

I don’t think any DV is funny at all. Here is a great article about how we need to get rid of all slapping in movies and tv shows.
medium.com/@pricelindy/we-need-to-talk-about-the-female-slap-d419c56758f7

Wasn’t Punch and Judy still around at that time?!?

George and Mildred.
Mildred was the strong one, George was downtrodden.
Hyacinth Bucket likewise, I forget the name of the series.
Les Dawson's mother in law jokes.
Butterflies.

Cybil slaps Basil round the face a couple of times in Fawlty Towers - so it's not a complete switcheroo. And wife with a rolling pin in an old, old, trope.

A couple of years ago, I would've probably agreed with you OP - but I am so bloody sick of this cancel culture and ultra pc stuff that's going on at the moment, I've revised my opinion to nothing being off limits in comedy. Fuck knows, we could all do with a laugh.

It must have been funny back in those days.
Didn't Andy Capp's wife hit him with a rolling pin, or was that another character?

I guess it's a good thing if men hitting their wives is not depicted in comedy so much now, since a significant minority of them still do it in real life.

But I am so over this cancel culture.

I wouldn't call it cancel culture...I'm not blaming the actors involved. I'm asking why it was seen as acceptable, and how has that 2 second bit remained in the film. We're not talking about George & Mildred, Keeping up Appearances etc....yes the husband was 'henpecked' (horrid phrase) but not the subject of violence. That's an interesting article Plan but the fact remains that most men are physically stronger and more dangerous to the women they are inflicting the violence on than the other way round. Women hitting men routinely is not acceptable either, I thought that was a given.

SpongeBob - did you ever see the tv programme "it was alright in the 70s" ? Because that probably explains it well - these were pre-pc times, where comedies had an incredible amount of sexism, racism, casual violence - that just wouldn't be acceptable now.

Fawlty Towers had Basil regularly whacking Manuel too, Benny Hill & Kenny Everett showed literal sexual harassment of women. Different times - the past is a foreign country and all that.

Personally I wouldn't like to see old films having bits sliced out of them to make them "acceptable now" - it's our cultural history.

TV on in background, this morning. Old film, 'Holiday on the buses' is on. I realise this is a pile of misogynistic crap

Why were you watching it at all then? You clearly knew what it would be like.

I appreciate that complaining about the poor quality of holiday TV is a national sport but even with just a freeview package and catch up there are dozens of options available. A "pile of misogynistic crap" on ITV3 can't possibly have been the least worst option.

I expect it was shown as part of a very cheap job lot to fill a non prime time slot for ITV3 involving little thought or analysis.

I like "On the Buses".

Personally I wouldn't like to see old films having bits sliced out of them to make them "acceptable now" - it's our cultural history

One either has to take the view the work so unacceptable (Black and White Minstrels) it can no longer be shown ; or the work retains some merit and objectionable bit is not a major part of it.

I agree cutting out part is the worst option.

Fawlty Towers is interesting - there is physical abuse of Manuel and verbal and racist abuse based on his being thick and from Barcelona.

The OP is complaining about 2 seconds in a film which was never held in any artistic esteem. The abuse of Manuel in the highly regarded Fawlty Towers happened in every episode.

Yes "On the Buses" is awful. It was awful back in the day and 100 times worse today. I think there is an issue with the amount of repeats of so many progs out of their time ... it reinforces to those that are happy in that time it was great back then and ok to behave in a mysoginist, racist way and enforcing stereotypes. I think we should write to the programmers about this ... my experience with young adults is though, that they find it boring and wont watch it, good for them.

No, the B&W Minstrel Show couldn't be shown now - I hope we don't end up losing stuff like Fawlty Towers the same way.

You can still see clips of the Minstrels on youtube though - important to be aware of it, and the cultural significance of it I suppose.

I'm not sure how I feel about tbh - Fawlty Towers couldn't be made in the same way now. The Irish builders, for example, as well. Should I feel guilty for thinking it's one of the funniest comedies of all time?

I'm asking why it was seen as acceptable

If the police were called to a domestic violence incident in those days they were very reluctant to intervene. Prosecutions for dv were almost unheard of - a man could get away with hospitalising his partner but get done for criminal damage because he broke a window to get in her house.
Marital rape was "acceptable" in the 70's as well. There was no such thing as sexual harassment at work either.

Times have changed because women made a noise.

The premise being that serious or really unsavoury behaviours shouldn't be used as comedy?

I don't know that I buy that, TBH.

I also don't buy the idea that because something is shown on tv without being obviously labeled as Bad Behaviour, that we are meant to think that it is being promoted or that the creators think it isn't a big deal. Do people really think John Cleese believed it was not so bad to beat up your employee?

Even beyond realising that depiction doesn't necessarily mean approval, in the last few years I've seen a lot of demands that certain shows be retired because they break current taboos, and the people making the demand seem utterly unaware that the show was actually being very critical of what it was depicting.

Fawlty Towers couldn't be made in the same way now.

In fact I think it was a BBC exec who said they would never hire the Monty Python guys to do a comedy troupe show today, because they were all white Cambridge types. So, yeah.

Ah, that explains it well, Goosefoot, thank you. I agree.

I've seen a lot of demands that certain shows be retired because they break current taboos, and the people making the demand seem utterly unaware that the show was actually being very critical of what it was depicting.
Some were, some weren't. Mind Your Language wasn't poking fun at racists they way Alf Garnett did.
I don't think they should be altered at all. Content warning beforehand if necessary. It's important to see how people were not that long ago. And yeah, you can laugh at funny parts of a comedy without stamping your approval on everything else about it. I can appreciate Marvin Gaye for his musical talent without that meaning I approve of him holding a knife to his wife's throat or using her as a sex slave.
Dig deep enough into any media or art and you'll find something disturbing.

I'm not sure how I feel about tbh - Fawlty Towers couldn't be made in the same way now. The Irish builders, for example, as well. Should I feel guilty for thinking it's one of the funniest comedies of all time?

The problem with Fawlty Towers is because it's clever and witty. For example Basil's rant about the guest who was disappointed with the view.

What did the guest expect to see from the window of a Torquay guest house ? A herd of wildebeest sweeping majesticaly across the veldt

On The Buses had nothing like that.

In fact I think it was a BBC exec who said they would never hire the Monty Python guys to do a comedy troupe show today, because they were all white Cambridge types. So, yeah

What an utterly stupid reason.

I was re-watching Men Behaving Badly over Christmas and while there was no actual violence there were plenty of suggestions of not-entirely-consensual sex as being funny

I think On the Buses has aged the worst of the sitcoms I watched as a child (didn't watch Love thy Neighbour, which has to be the least savoury of the lot). Arthur and Olive had a horrible abusive relationship. Arthur, who was no oil painting himself, constantly put down Olive for her appearance and uselessness, yet he didn't seem to have a job and was happy to sponge off Olive's family. She should have LTB and her mum, who they lived with, should have thrown him out.

Sitcoms reflect social mores and it's interesting to watch old series. The message from On the Buses is that this relationship is ok.

We get a skewed version now.of what we watched back in the 70s. Carla Lane's comedies (Liver Birds, Butterflies) centred women with very different messages from On the Buses, but they aren't shown.