Current teenage boy culture

[definitelypossibly]

I have 4 children, 2 younger ones and 2 teenagers (DD 17 DS 14). DS had a few mates round yesterday and they were playing grime music. Some absolutely vile lyrics were present about stabbing, but then there was some sexual stuff that sounded non-consensual and in general just very grim.

"Strike me a pose (strike it)
Girl you're kinda cute you know (yeah, yeah yeah)
Here all alone (why you on you own?), Girl you gotta loosen up (ice)
Cuz your body wanna move you know
Uptight, just loosen up"

"Peng ting from Bellingham
No love, just suck this elephant (Suck it)
No wap gets flashed, man's wetting 'em
Energy, got enough adrenaline"

"Back my J-Lo and back shot man
They're Madeleine gang, cos they vanished and ran
Buck my main hoe, that's backshot gang
Baby bend ya' back and then dig it
Dig it, bend ya' back and then dig it
Back and then dig it, gyal want more dickin'
Back in one minute, bag up that spinach"

As you can see, some really lovely stuff. These are from 3 different chart songs and I've also heard "clean" versions played on the radio (swear words blanked but sexual euphemisms etc are kept in).

I've spoken to DS about it, I have always tried to raise him to respect women and he's always told me he will. When I asked him about the music lyrics him and his friends were listening to he genuinely didn't see the problem. "It's just what's in". I think it's fucking disgusting that this stuff is allowed to appear in the charts or even be made in the first place by official studios.

DD when in school experienced constant harassment from lads (asking for nudes, calling her clapped when she refused and was also the victim of a sexual assault in school. There has also been cases of girls being filmed without their knowledge. DD enlightened me to something called "expose accounts" on Snapchat where loads of boys have a group chat and share and compare the nudes they have pressured poor girls into sending. I hear teenage lads on the bus as well talking about the girls they know, pure objectifying. Going on about what so and so's body part looks like etc. I fucking despair, I really do. Nothing is fucking changing. A new generation of men are now emerging who are just as vile as the last.

I needed to rant.

We had the Prodigy’s ‘Smack My Bitch Up’ to contend with back in my day so it seems like not much has changed. I remember some guy in college trying to mansplain the lyrics to me, saying it was just about drugs and excess not about hitting women

Teenage boys can be vile though. I went to an all-girls school and was glad to avoid most of that BS. it actually made us more confident too. When we did encounter shitty behavior from boys our age, we weren’t scared to call them out on it.

Remember the video for that, inionelie? Shot from first person perspective, and then the twist at the end is that it’s a woman behaving so terribly? Not sure that made the song any better, tbh.

This cultural pornification does worry me. I can’t imagine how girls are managing to navigate this safely it was bad enough back in days of yore when I was a kid, but at least then I could escape at home. I don’t think kids get any respite now.

Similar aged boys. It's definitely getting worse. From day a decade ago. And it was bad enough then. I know not what the answer is.

We seem to have a topsy turvey world or more accurately hypocritical society - our state broadcaster the BBC promotes and plays a lot of music with mysoginistic and violent language running through the middle of it - the people writing and performing it - held up as icons and role models - sexual violence and knife crime rises - very little if anything is done other than to create less offensive radio friendly versions - Essentially ridiculously high levels of tolerance - On the flip side people losing jobs - being cancelled and publicly shamed for stating the very reasonable belief - that a Man cannot change into a Woman - whether through surgery - drugs - or wishing really hard

I agree with the point about Stormzy, I really like him, so why is he calling women sluts? He seems to progressive in so many ways.
It's 2019 and I think it's worse than ever. I dont remember these lyrics being as ubiquitous in the 90s, listen to radio 1 for an hour. It's horrific.

Sorry it's 2020!! Even worse

I went to an all-girls school and was glad to avoid most of that BS. it actually made us more confident too. When we did encounter shitty behavior from boys our age, we weren’t scared to call them out on it.
Which is why girls' schools are a porn theme, why the St Trinian's saucy schoolgirl trope exists, why school uniform is "sexy" (especially in the US where it isn't commonly worn in schools but signifies either an expensive private school or an expensive private girls' school)
Anything that causes women and girls to get "uppity" is sexualised to clam men's fears.
Older women? Cougars and MILFs, a porn category
Businesswomen? Porn category
Nuns? Porn category
Lesbians? Porn category
Uni students? Porn category
Doctors, nurses? Porn category

The message to men is "don't worry, they're still fuckable, they're not taking over, you still get to be the man".

Calm not clam

When I asked him about the music lyrics him and his friends were listening to he genuinely didn't see the problem.

OP, this is the main problem. Even when you point something out he isn't interested because it doesn't suit him to be.
So he didn't recognise it as a problem when he first heard it, or bought the track/s, or when he played it to his friends, or when he sang along. Assuming he understands the lyrics that is. But when you ask him about it specifically he wants you to prove to him why it's a problem, because your word as his mother is less influential than "what's in".
That's the main issue, the fact it is misogynistic song lyrics is just the symptom. Sooner or later he's going to dismiss you about something else, for the same reasons.

I really rate Stormzy for his funding of university places for young people- such a powerful thing to do. Beyond brilliant.
But then I listened to his recent music and the lyrics are massively disrespectful to women. Ugh.

This is a huge worry for me as the mum of a 9 year old girl who seems about 15 some days. My daughter has two mums (my wife and I are lesbians obvs) so I feel like I am even more disconnected from straight teenage boy culture - most of our friends are gay. I feel like I should educate myself but I'm horrified at what I might find - I googled the lyrics to Stormzys Vossi Bop as I like his music and the first verse has a line about facials - I assume he isn't talking about the ones where you have cucumbers on your eyes?!

@definitelypossibly on the expose accounts, I saw a really good Aussie mini-series about this. I can't remember where I found it to play in the UK, it may have been a commercial catch-up service? But anyway it's gripping and interesting enough to appeal to mid/older teens

Eugh it’s so annoying. I just really feel like saying ‘so basically you write songs about being an oppressor’ and I know everyone I know connected to him (white, umc, often privately educated, publishing/bbc) would be like ermigod WHAT you can’t say that he’s a YOUNG BLACK MAN don’t you know, we are so RIGHT ON promoting him and jizzing in our pants every time he appears etc.

But women are the oppressed sex class. He is making songs about how it is fun to degrade us. This is not cool.

I mean, why is it so tottttttallly okay to say dismissive and derogatory things about women? And be lauded while those things are played repeatedly over on the national broadcaster? It’s just a sign of how deep the misogyny runs.

It’s just a sign of how deep the misogyny runs.

This^. It's also a sign of how much of that deep misogyny teenagers have already absorbed that they don't see the problem with it.

Imagine a song saying equally derogatory things about, I don't know, Chinese people or disabled people. How much do you want to bet they'd see the problem with that immediately?

It's a tough one for me, because teenagers do love to shock parents and other adults by rebelling and engaging in things they know are considered inappropriate for them, like sexualised music and clothing, gratuitous violence, profanity, alcohol, drugs etc. As mentioned by another poster, boys gain popularity among their peers for being trouble makers and rule breakers.

I do wish rap, metal and many other kinds of music genres didn't have such sexualised, violent or misogynistic lyrics. However, they are popular among all ages despite the lyrics (or probably even due to the lyrics) because the songs sound so good! Stormzy, Prodigy, Tupac, Sex Pistols and so many others - it's what I call 'good ol' angry music'. There's something very primal and animalistic about it.
As part of living in a civilised society, we are told we have to follow rules and laws, be nice and polite to people and never express violent or aggressive behaviour and attitudes. Except we are a deeply violent species of ape. We are capable of peaceful cooperation when it suits, but underneath the clothes and table manners, we are animals and easily prone to violence, some more than others. Hence why the most violent prisoners are unsurprisingly men, as on average, males of any species are far more likely to engage in aggression. For some reason, women and many feminists in particular ignore these underlying patterns.

Music, movies and sports are popular precisely because they provide a pressure valve for vicariously engaging in uncivilised and objectionable behaviour - rapping about shooting someone, supervillains blowing and smashing things up and the hero doing the same but we cheer because he's the 'good' guy, screaming crowds at boxing / wrestling matches and other contact sports. If we are honest with ourselves, it gives many of us a thrill.

And adolescence is one of the most tumultuous periods. The urge to be angry and smash things runs high.
Many of us continue to feel the urges at times as adults, but part of growing up is realising we are responsible for our actions and we regulate and control our behaviour in a civilised society. That's why laws are meant to penalise our actions, not thoughts, however awful those thoughts might be.

Musicians and their producers capitalise on this primal urge to violence and know it will sell well among teens and adults, especially boys and men.

nonny yes, I agree with much of what you are saying.

However, my point is that we largely now frown upon for example outright racism in songs, especially against the oppressed class (as we should). Media wrings its hands over the violence young men show TO EACH OTHER in grime videos (as they should). Rap about humiliating a young woman so you can dominate her and do what you like to her sexually? And how she should be honoured and A-OK with this? Absolutely fine, everyone, even on this thread, will be falling all over themselves to say what a nice Christian mum-loving boy you are. It's not just young men, it's absolutely woven through society, sanctioned (if even noticed) by the establishment and it's so completely acceptable that it's almost taboo to call it out. It is considered far, far, far, worse to be called racist than sexist. Why?

Women have a horrific history going back thousands of years of being owned, traded, in a life where marriage meant passing of ownership from father to husband with the requisite renaming, there was no crime of rape or physical abuse within marriage, her property was not her own but to be deployed by her 'owner', she could not vote, she often could not work, she could not command fair pay for her work (still can't). When she was abused and attacked by males on the street it was she who was confined to the house rather than he who posed the threat. The history of our lives is that of being controlled, constrained and confined by men, and we still in general society see the remnants of that as perfectly acceptable.

MCBerberLoop I realise that social stigma is a useful tool to shape our human societies and that something similar needs to happen in terms of sexist and demeaning language around women.

While it's normal for teens to rebel and act out, it's important that parents continue to set boundaries and confront their children over questionable ideas and language as many of the mums in this thread have demonstrated. Teenage boys might currently shrug off any criticisms but many people remember the things their parents told them and I have no doubt that good parenting manifests itself in adulthood.

I was a bit annoyed when I heard the facial lyrics in Stormzy's song but I think that's because when someone claims to be god-fearing and how much they love their mum etc, I expect better of them in terms of their attitude and language towards women.

I agree with your description of women being owned and used, and that is exactly what underpins the lyrics in many songs, especially rap songs. As far as I can see, it seems to me that many rap songs are not directed at women. Rap songs seem predominantly about males posturing aggressively to other males. One of the biggest bruises to a man's ego is another man seducing and sleeping with his partner and therefore many songs are about overtly or covertly doing this, among other things like having more wealth and popularity etc. Very juvenile stuff and not particularly creative.
However, I have noticed that references to gang related violence have diminished in rap lyrics in recent years. It's no longer considered cool to indulge in such talk, at least in the mainstream. I could be mistaken but it is a trend I have noticed.

I would hope that similar changes in attitudes might happen in terms of how women are referenced, but I think we might be waiting a while. Human societies are dominated by males and the vast majority of our music, media, art, politics etc is about males communicating with and expressing their ideas to other males. Women are usually a footnote or prop in these interactions to show off their prowess and power amongst each other. 😒