Just deflated

[MilesHuntsWig]

Minor thing. Tried to be nice and encourage polite and reasoned debate on the "feminists rising" Facebook page after someone posted about thoughts on current trans discussions. Think the original poster and I disagreed but were amicable about the fact that we needed healthy discourse and of course it descends into (from another poster) "you're transphobic", "TERFS should be de-platformed as it's hate speech", "don't worry it's hard to pick up the basics, repeat after me TWAW, TMAM".

No one else says anything. Ffs. Patronising fuckers.

I've learned my lesson. Why bother.

Honestly, don't take it so hard. The whole danger of engaging with other people is that you risk negative responses. But you will (more often than you think) be able to reach those who disagree with you and find common ground. Not everyone, and maybe not even most people, but enough to be valuable. You did a brave thing by speaking up and it will be easier and easier to do as you go on. Thank you for saying something

for you, Wig - I had a similar experience just before Christmas. I hope that for every rude wokebro there’s a few more reading the debate and having their eyes opened.

Thanks both, you're obvs completely right. Deep breath and carry on!

I understand
It’s that feeling of drowning in a sea of crazy. Stay away for a bit.

"don't worry it's hard to pick up the basics, repeat after me TWAW, TMAM".

No. I will never agree with this.

Don't give up OP. Remember all the people seeing that exchange, it could be a lightbulb moment for some of them.

Well done for speaking up.

Those mantras, the brainwashing can make it hard to reason with some.

So much of the ideology has been based on name calling, threats, abuse and trying to make those of us who do not subscribe to genderism, sound like bigots. It is all textbook in a bid to silence others.

It's meant to make you feel deflated, but if you can get one person thinking, then it's worth it.

Also, remember that this is a social media bubble, where people don't reveal their true feelings, where everything is more dramatic and soundbites/slogans are wheeled out time and time again.

I find it's easier in real life to make the odd comment to a colleague or friend and then start a meaningful dialogue.

I think that's the first time I've ever seen TMAM written down!

I saw one of my colleagues retweet a “repeat after me” statement. He’s not the sharpest tool in the office, but I was still quite taken aback!

These 'mantras' are so cult like, I'm amazed people can't see it.

"don't worry it's hard to pick up the basics, repeat after me TWAW, TMAM"

I would say 'Are you able to explain to me in what way TWAW?' and just let them flounder.

Other people will be happy to chat about it but those chanting mantras are no better than the sheep repeating 'Four legs good, two legs bad' imo.

Their responses to you will be sending a whole load of onlookers up the mountain.

Remember the lurkers

"These 'mantras' are so cult like, I'm amazed people can't see it."

As a very much lapsed Catholic, I totally agree with this. We used to be forced to say the Catechism in RS lessons, basically a form of brainwashing, whose purpose was to instil the non scientific beliefs of the church into pupils, very simply put - repetition, over and over again.

I hope the tide starts to turn in 2020. I used to comment loads on FB. It’s so draining. I got loads of likes but few actual supportive comments. I still remember the names of those who did stick their necks out. I took a break from FB for about 9m
On the positive side I would now say that the gender critical voice is louder a year on.

I took a break from FB for about 9m..

Nine minutes isn't long enough; you need a week off at least.

I would say 'Are you able to explain to me in what way TWAW?' and just let them flounder.

They dont flounder. That's the point. They start talking about gender identity and feelings with confidence and how "older people" dont understand progress...

And then they flounder out of the room shouting "you're just a bigot!" And you get nowhere.

I know this because I live with one 🙄

I've even been told that trans people were part of the 1o89 stonewall riots and the T has always been part of the LGB.

They dont let irksome things like facts and history get in the way.

They just shout some more and then inform you that they are no longer willing to discuss the issue with you and claim the moral high ground.

But they do not flounder.

Yep exhausting. I've just pointed out how slogan chanting, patronising passive aggression and name-calling aren't the best ways to engage/make a point and have left it. Trying to take the higher ground without asking if they're aware how cultish and batshit they sound (although I did point out their original assertion that gender self ID is as medically valid as an x Ray was "fact-lite" - understatement of the century).

Leaving it for now as I don't think there's any point in engaging more. Thanks for support though sane people!!

If you have patience and the inclination, you take whatever nonsense they tell you and ask for clarification. It's all about the onlookers.

'So you say that being a woman is a feeling and has nothing at all to do with biological sex? That's interesting. Is that what they teach in GCSE biology now or are they still agreed that a woman is an adult human female?'

Yes of course they flounder. Flounce or flounder are their only choices because they cannot make sense of it even if they try.

My response to this is:
When stating TWAW, the definition of W is based on identity. This is fine in contexts where sex and sexed bodies are irrelevant. In some contexts, differentiating between males and females is vital, even if this is distressing to those who are distressed by their natal sex.
People with DSDs are either male or female.
TW are male, if not, they wouldn't be trans.
TM are female, if not, they wouldn't be trans.
In many situations, a person's sex is irrelevant. In these situation, for many reasons, sex shouldn't be a consideration. In some situations it is fundamental. We need to be able to accommodate this and the mantra TWAW doesn't allow for this.

You can’t debate with crazy. I wish I’d screenshotted it now but I saw a tweet from someone the other day that it’s possible now that men can have periods and scientists claim that in a few years time men will be able to give birth. I thought it was a ‘spoof’ but I don’t think it was.

I’m actually going to see if it’s still in my history somewhere..

I think that when they say men, the mean people who have female reproductive organs.

@fairenuff If that ^ response was a reply to mine it didn’t read like that. The person tweeting said men can now have periods and in a few years time scientists said men will be able to give birth - which transmen with female reproductive organs can do right now anyway.

Found it!

I mean, I might be wrong, it could be a spoof, I am genuinely not sure anymore. 19 people liked it. I hope it is a spoof and the 19 likes were liking the comedy/sarcastic aspect of it?