BBC Radio 4 "Today" prog: Panto dames etc

[yetanotherusernameAgain]

08:47 for about 5 minutes. Christopher Biggins (actor who has played pantomime dames for years) and Dr Naomi Paxton.

It was noted that the tradition of a female playing a male character (panto boy) has declined. Biggins thought that was good because men need someone they can look up to.

Also noted that the panto dame isn't the only female character played by men - also ugly sisters (in Cinderella) and wicked witch/queen.

Dr Naomi Paxton said the only remaining main role played by a woman is the main girl/ingenue, who doesn't have much agency nor much participation with the audience (the participatory roles performed by men). Also the decline of female panto boy partly due to commercial decision to cast young male pop stars etc (to attract audiences).

Dr Paxton used the word 'grotesque' to describe the female characters played by men, which Biggins took literally and said his character wasn't grotesque but the ugly sisters were.

There wasn't really any discussion between the two interviewees - mostly Biggins talking enthusiastically about panto dames.

I heard a few snatches of the programme but not the whole thing. it sounded interesting.

the principal boy being played by a woman has virtually gone and yes it is definitely because there are so many handsome young male pop stars and soap actors after these roles.

meanwhile any characters who are middle-aged women continue to be played by middle aged men, and played for laughs and ridicule. obviously this is tradition. it is very traditional to ridicule and despise middle aged women, and have traditional stories where the middle aged women are completely evil or if not evil then just ridiculous. it's just a bit of fun. it's not like middle aged women are real people in the same way that middle aged men are real people.

the patriarchy and misogyny of it all absolutely reeks.

It was interesting in that Biggins said the grotesques were played by drag queens and made a distinction between them and the dame.

I like C Biggins - but his analysis was really about him and his performance...

Grayson Perry’s contribution at the very end was also worth listening too.

On the one hand it is ok, because tradition, for men to play older women in panto, yet it is also ok, because tradition is passe, for women to play men.

Are there no female pop stars out there?

I looked at a leaflet for a local panto recently and noted that the entire headlining cast of 7 were, as a result of this, men, bar one woman hidden right at the back.

Ps after seeing Grayson speaking recently, he's not only extremely funny and astute, he's definitely GC.

He was the editor today, I'm going to listen carefully.

And interesting that the focus was about "belief."

I'm not hugely keen on some of his outfits for "Claire," but I've not read his book yet and need to do so.

Listening to Grayson's bit now, yes very interesting and very similar to what he spoke about on stage.

He is quite critical of the way the left is running. Also about the rigidity of identity- he showed an identity triangle in his show with human at the top and then sex.

We take DS to the panto every year, as part of an extended family tradition. This year I asked if he thought window twanky was male or female. He was shocked to find out it was a man. I'm disappointed an 8 yr old can't tell the difference between a woman and a man dressed up as a woman. I have more work to do with him.

You do usually have a good fairy/fairy godmother too. I think the only one where that's a man is Aladdin (and the genie of the ring is usually female in that case).

I think it's a shame that having a principal boy has declined, I liked the whole topsy-turvey nature of it.

(Daisy the cow stole the show at the one we saw this year, but I don't think she really counts.)

I think it's a shame that having a principal boy has declined, I liked the whole topsy-turvey nature of it.

I think that's the point really, it's all about reversals. Maybe if they could convince Taylor Swift to do it...

@whatnow40

I was genuinely shocked when I found out that wee Jimmy Krankie was not a cheeky boy but a grown woman and it was the same with Hinge and Bracket, although Kenny Everett was obvious.

I wouldn't worry that he can't tell at this stage, kids take things at face value and he will develop a more critical approach as he gets older.