Stonewall definition, I’m trying to understand

[WhoEatsPopTarts]

I’ve been dipping in to the threads here for a while and trying to understand the issues and have noticed that the Stonwall definition of trans is regularly referred to. I got the impression that it was very open and people have suggested that almost everyone came under the umbrella. This morning I had a look at their site and this is what it says in their glossary for Trans.

“TRANS

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.”

What am I missing?

Link it to their definition of ‘gender’: ‘GENDER - Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.’

So they’re saying that anyone who isn’t completely comfortable with the social stereotypes associated with their sex is trans. That would include LGB people, women in STEM, fathers who work around their childcare hours or are stay-at-home dads, women who don’t wear heels & makeup.....

That definition does include most people as trans. Who do you know who feels completely comfortable with all the stereotypes associated with their sex?

Also that those of us who view gender as a sexist construct & refuse to have any truck with it are trans too because we don’t have ‘gender identities’.

Also sex, of course, is observed at birth not assigned. Stonewall are implying that what makes someone female or male is the ‘gender’ they’re born with & that somebody is trans if their sex doesn’t match it.

What is it that you think you are missing?

I've never been comfortable with the ''gender roles'' assigned to me on the basis of my sex; except I call them stereotypes and think society needs to stop expecting people to like certain things, behave or dress certain ways, just because of their sex.

No one has ever told me that I was 'assigned' woman at birth, or thats the reason I face sex based oppression and violence, because it isn't true.

Ahh ok, I totally get that thank you. @LangCleg no need to be unkind

No one is being unkind.

I think Lang was trying to be helpful in identifying whether you had particular questions / issues.

There was nothing unkind in Langs question. Unless questions are of themselves unkind which is going to make communication tricky.

Under the Stonewall umbrella anyone is trans if they want to be.

Yet as the song says "It's a big enough umbrella, but it's me that ends up getting wet"

Oh and Lang wasn't being unkind. Helpful, yes.

They say that it's someone whose gender identity or gender expression differs from their sex. Gender expression is clothing. So they're saying if you don't wear clothing that is stereotypically designed for your sex, you are trans.

And gender identity, unless you believe in souls, is whether you identify with the stereotypical roles, also assigned to your sex. As most people don't, most people are trans.

It's a nonsense explanation to provide some kind of justification for men who reject toxic masculinity in the form of gender dysphoria, or men who are aroused by their own self feminisation.

And because it doesn't make sense and is incoherent, it fits almost everyone.

TheInebriati this thread might appeal to AFABs or those for whom it's more complex.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3774990-Quinn-AFAB-transwoman

OP I think ppl are also surprised to see "crossdresser" in there - a term specifically referring solely to clothes and appearance - as something that means you are in every way a member of the opposite sex. Purely because off the clothes you wear.

A male cross dresser fetishises women's clothing, OP.

So yeah, it's fairly insulting to say that they are, therefore, a woman.

Who - I also think you are assuming logic where logic is lacking - as the other posts have alluded too.

Somewhere they have also stated that gender doesn’t change - which it does -detransitioners are a good example. Biological sex however doesn’t change.

We could start a new campaign for Stonewall - Females demand equal rights to generate sperm...

Interesting that the picture handsoffmyrights posted has a clear line (the umbrella handle?) between trans man and trans woman. Highly offensive to those who believe gender is a spectrum not a binary.

I don't believe everyone is born with a soul aka gender identity. I certainly don't have one. Does that make me agender? Therefore I'm trans now?

As I woman, I find it incredibly offensive that a man who is a crossdresser or has a fetish or sexual arousal for feminine stereotypes is considered a woman if he declares himself to be one.

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

Unless we are walking, talking stereotypes of our sex then we are ALL under this umbrella I think.

Sorry, I clearly misunderstood @LangCleg tone. I’ve come back to this thread and am a bit wtf about my own reaction, so hope you’ll forgive me.

I’m glad I posted though because you’ve clarified this for me. I am particularly worried about the stereotyping that’s so prevalent at the moment, so I completely understand your points.

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

I have no idea who assigned me a gender at birth or why they did it, but I'm certainly not comfortable with it.

On the other hand, if nobody had ever observed my sex my first period would have been incredibly traumatic, to say nothing of that time when another human being emerged from my body.