Did you grow up in 70s/80s?

[WomanBornNotWorn]

I was born in 63 so have no memory of the Beatles / hippies etc. But at around ten years old I started to become aware of and adored glam rock, Marc Bolan, Freddie Mercury, the guys from Sweet - long hair, Spandex, tons of makeup, platform heels and all. That morphed into disco - flares, more makeup, more platforms - and punk - leather, short hair, even more makeup - and New Romantics - lace, frilly shirts, still more makeup ... it all went on like fireworks over only about ten years or so.

I feel sorry for kids & teens now, there just doesn't seem to be the flamboyance and fun and freedom to dress up, without a heavy drag and gender identity boxing-up and labelling.

Maybe I'm misreading and it was there all along. But it does seem that there is less freedom, more narrow definitions now.

Anyone here young enough or have kids and able to say if there's anything similar happening, now that isn't all about gender?

There is a kind of silliness to wanting everyone to be non-conformist. I remember being in high school and one day having the sudden insight that the non-conformist cool musician kids were actually all just conforming to a different sort of stereotype.

That being said, it seems like at the moment, there is an awful lot of pop culture that is very powerfully directed by corporate bodies. Even counter-cultural trends are very quickly snapped up by someone looking to sell them and make money. It also seems that a lot of the creativity young people used to spend on clothing and music now goes into social media.

Depressingly talking to my feminist dd many of the issues are the same as when I was her age, sexism, misogyny etc.

‘72 born and I remember things like not being able to wear trousers for work, even having to wear a certain height of heel! So it wasn’t all good back then.

But yes in terms of the freedom for teens to experiment with image and expression I think current teens/early 20’s (own dd is 18) are really worryingly restricted. I’ve had many conversations with dd about how aside from goths there don’t seem to be clear “groups” that are into
different music, film, books etc

ALL the girls have long, straight, dark hair, they all seem to do their make up very similarly, wear the same clothes...

ALL the boys also have the same short hairstyle, don’t wear any make up unless they’re making a point, wear the same clothes...

and there’s a fear of being different which while we worried about “fitting in” to a degree it’s off the scale now!

There’s a pressure to conform which concerns me.

If you can’t experiment/play around with your image as a teen when can you?!

As a teen myself I played around with neon, denims in all colours, different “fits” (early 80’s tended to be tight stuff - boob tubes, leggings, ski pants late 80’s baggy jeans, batwing sweaters etc), masculine and feminine clothing, I had 50’s boys suits from charity shops which I styled with colourful braces and bow ties and pixie boots, or power dressing or “Sloane ranger” styling.

My parents were a weird mix
of permissive and strict, they weren’t fussed about the clothes as long as not too revealing but I wasn’t allowed to cut my long hair (“rebelled” by one of the first things i did when I left home aged 17 was getting a wedge flip haircut - remember them? Only to realise my parents were right and I don’t suit short hair!) but I was allowed to dye it, inc (temp - school rules) mad colours like neon pink or electric blue - I think it was both one summer holiday, I was allowed to wear heels but not too high and not every day - pretty sensible really my mums feet were mangled from wearing high heeled pointed shoes throughout the 60’s and she didn’t want my sister or I suffering as she does/did.

Even the music/film/sm people the “young ‘uns” aspire to are largely quite boring now!

I remember dd telling me little mix had created a “scandal” with some supposedly revealing concert outfits yet when I looked they really weren’t that bad, certainly Madonna, Cher and even Brooke shields were FAR more scandalous back in the day!

“and what I think is missing these days is the amateurish nature of things in the 70s - people made their own fashion items, used their sewing machines and just sort of cobbled stuff together how they wanted sometimes” yes! And in the 80’s too! One sleeved tops and ripped jeans weren’t originally bought/made like that we’d customise stuff all the time.

My dd has done this too but she’s definitely the exception rather than the rule, and it’s kind of a necessity for her - she is very tall and has long limbs at least partly due to her disability affects this kind of thing so she’s cut off sleeves that sit at weird lengths or bought longer skirts then modified them into mini skirts because the ones originally sold as mini’s wouldn’t cover her arse! She’s also added fabric to lengthen sleeves/legs/skirt lengths she also has a very slim waist in proportion to hips so has altered jeans and trousers to fit better, but she’s also done stuff for fun like rips, “graffiti”, dying things different colours... her friends think she’s way out there and are surprised I “let” her but it seems normal to me. She usually knows what she’s doing and on the odd occasion it’s gone wrong by this point it’s her money she’s wasting as she works full time now and buys her own clothes.

My mum used to help us alter stuff too and had ideas, even dad would suggest ways to alter suits to fit better or how best to press them so they’d sit a certain way.

But yes now it all seems so prescriptive and whatever the opposite of creative might be!

“In the 90s, I noticed that young people on the streets were starting to look less interesting and more conformist” I’d agree with that

I’ve also the strange experience that because my parents are both the eldest of big families I have aunts and uncles that are closer in age to me than to them and I remember the uncles having proper hippy long hair, wearing sarongs in summer, platform heeled boots, eyeliner and cheek sparkle, the aunties going bra less and wearing loads of colour both clothes and make up, all being into different music and film, books AND POLITICS which was great for me - think it added many grey hairs to my grandparents heads though 😂

Although even the military side were fairly easy going with this kind of thing. Although I do remember my gran outright forbidding one aunt from going out bra less in a thin cream cotton top as her breasts were clearly visible! Even I thought that was a bit much! (Auntie was arguing top not that see through - it was!)

@Tely04 excellent post! Please do stick around Mumsnet isn’t just for mums we talk about loads of interesting things here.

My dd also enjoys 80’s music (though oddly not the music I like from then 😂) and has been teased about it. She’s a big synth pop fan. But she also
Likes some modern stuff

But yes she’s also said that the themes in modern stuff are restrictive and samey she loves that in 80’s music there’s also songs about family, society, politics, environment, inanimate objects!, emotions other than love, bereavement etc

I’m a big George Michael fan myself and yes he did a lot of “love songs” but he also wrote about family, grief, hardship, politics...

Tanith - you could be right - conformity as rebellion, like saffy
In Ab Fab being uptight as her mum was so out there and would have been unphased even applauded a “normal” rebellion

Re uni students - yes they’re turning up and “learning” but I hear (and witnessed this myself as a mature student) they don’t QUESTION they are more likely to blindly accept now, I was hearing from lecturers even then (early 00’s) that they were pleased they were showing up (even though this is largely financially motivated) but frustrated that they were somehow nervous of questioning what they were being taught, scared to offend lecturers for fear of a bad grade - yet good educators welcome challenge and new ideas and want their students to think for themselves not learn by rote! One lecturer had a bit of a fit after being asked for the umpteenth time “will it be on the exam though sir?” Uni is meant to be for broadening the mind not just passing exams!

“Isn't the FWR mantra every one should wear what they want/ look however they want” yes of course, I suspect the others I’m agreeing with on that though like me are concerned that they’re not dressing/styling themselves like that because it’s what they want but because they feel under such pressure to conform.

One of dds friends cut her hair short because she’s naturally very curly and it was a pita “doing” it every day - the shock it caused was utterly ridiculous! And she even had some very nasty comments from some.

In terms of “pure” feminism there seems a worrying trend of regression inc some of dds friends being “talked to” by employers for daring to wear trousers to work!

And what's all the disdain for beards on men and long hair on young women?

I've no disdain for beards as long as the owners don't want me to kiss them. But the "disdain" for long hair (though despair is a more accurate description of what I feel) is that it is omnipresent and couched in a set of beliefs where girls have long hair and if your hair is short you're not a "real" girl or appropriately feminine. Peer pressure has always been a thing but the desire for "sameness" has, I think, reached new levels.

It is easy to talk about FWR as meaning girls can do whatever they want (including all have long straight hair) but decisions are not made in a vacuum. The same discussions take place here regularly enough about make-up, clothing, porn and prostitution.

I was a Goth (Gen X). I loved the sisters, Bowie, and, needless to say, 80s Goth. My mum (Boomer) was a fan of Dylan, The Doors and the Stones, and that has stayed with me always although the Doors remain near the top of my list as one of my favourite bands ever. Mine was a classical and rock family but my Dad let the side down - he liked ELO.

But ... there was no Rammstein back then.

I still go to Download. Even though I could probably pass as somebody's granny

students ... frustrated that they were somehow nervous of questioning what they were being taught, scared to offend lecturers for fear of a bad grade - yet good educators welcome challenge and new ideas and want their students to think for themselves not learn by rote!

I'm a lecturer. And I agree. The most important principles of learning in this environment are those of critical thinking. I had some fantastic, constructive arguments with my students as a T.A. some years ago, but with every intake they seem more reluctant to challenge what they see as received wisdom. I have to actively encourage them to directly challenge me in seminars - which it takes them some weeks/months to come to grips with - and to do the same in essays. I've nearly worn out the phrase: 'I want to hear what YOU think, not to have my own ideas parroted back at me!'

It takes a lot of encouragement to bring them out of their shells. As recently as a decade ago, I didn't need to say this.

I dont think anyone who has commented about more freedom in dress back in the 70s etc., had said it was a better time. Most have referred to the entrenched sexism and racism.

It was / is about the fact that it was possible for men to wear make up / "female" clothes and it not be thought to be anything to do with gender identity or wanting to change your sex.

And I pointed out in my post that this did mostly happen in cities rather than rural areas. I can remember going out with a group of friends who looked sort of hippieish (yes I am that old) and a local pub refusing to serve us! But then they might have had to put up with new age hippies invading their area and trying to tell the local community that they were living inthe wrong way and should join their commune of rubbish tents and broken down caravans, and sit by smokey fires.

And as had already been said clothes are some sort of a statement for each generation (ie the hair dye that many of us mighthave thought why not, is now such a symbol of wokeishness many dont do it). So for me the beat generation were the rule breakers with their almost androgenous style, but I thought their music quaint and old fashioned. But when I listen to it know appreciate that they were being overtly political and obviously influenced 60s folk and political protest songs.

I miss not having a radio station I could rely on to let me hear new music and play the odd old favourite. They seem to now divide up into either all oldies, or a particular strand of current music.

Late 80s so just into my 30s. My parents loved what is now classic rock and passed that onto me, lots of Queen. But I love 80s music in general so am an oddity.
As a youth I did dress alternatively so saw a slightly more diverse range i.e. lo g hair and eyeliner on men. In general though, the boys and girls looked the same.
Long straightened hair, jeans and nice top
Short hair with too much product, t shirts and jeans.

As I brought up beards can I just say the fact I find beards odder on men than make up has nothing to do with 'disdain'.

I simply grew up at a time when it was rare for men to have beards (moustaches were a different matter) and like everyone else am a product of my environment.

I also find baggy shorts on men odd having grown up with short shorts.

I loved beards when I was a teenager in the 70s and 80s (I used to swoon over the picture of Lindsey Buckingham on the back of 'Rumours') so was delighted to see their return recently. First one I noticed was on Patrick Grant on Sewing Bee (swoon) and now my DH sports one. He lets me comb it and oil it 😍

Interesting thread. 70s born here. Britain is much more conformist now I think. MarielVanArkleStinks, I do not think youngsters are encouraged to question in education now. One must not be critical in any way of one's superiors in age and hierarchy which are always present in schools: it is not "positive" and after all "experts" always know best. Schools are clamping down. In some ways it's good. In some ways we're losing, and the growth of thought police disturbs me.

I wonder if part of the reason young people aren't that interested in experimenting with fashion is that they see it as kind of compromised, at least the ones who might want to do something different?

Every trend has been corporatised, punk, grunge, etc. How can you be authentically rebellious with clothing now? The fashion industry is increasingly vapid not to mention a consumerist disaster.

At secondary school in the 70s, you could not contradict the word of an adult. You could be accused of something you did not do, and could not even mention the evidence that proved it. It's not so different from the corporal punishment scene in Kes where Billy gets whacked when he's been sent to the Head with a message, and knows there is no point protesting.

And of course it was massively corrupt. It was the world in which Chris Woodhead could fuck his sixth formers in the back of his van outside the school gates and everybody had to look the other way because all he had to do was deny it. Children always lied about such things, it was asserted, but to even contemplate the possibility that adults might lie was an "Appalling Vista."

I found the 70s to be a horrible time actually, and my childhood was pretty nice. As a teen in school uniform men would kerb crawl us, and leer at us and make really sexualised comments to us. As a young woman, men spiked our drinks, told us to 'cheer up', grope us in pubs and all in all treat us like meat. But that was the time when Benny Hill was main stream TV. I felt like prey actually, and because we were out on our own such a lot (that freedom everyone always harks back to) I always felt a bit scared.

I was born in 66 and loved men in eyeliner. My top 3 were Adam Ant, Marc Almond and Boy George.

My daughter is into the undergroiund music system and they seem fairly gender bendery but not gender identifarians.

she has a love for yunglud who oft wears a dress and never goes out without eyeliner. Man though

I was a teenager in the 70's. I remember it as a much more innocent time . I loved the 70's. I didn't like the 80's or 90's much. Clothes, music, the sense of possibilities and excitement. TV was better, I loved listening to the Top 40 on the radio every week, going to school discos, wearing Rimmel make up etc. Talking to my friends on the phone (the landline) making plans. Looking forward to going into town at the weekend to go shopping. Films in the cinema seemed great. Saturday Night Fever, The Deerhunter, so many films came out then that seemed like a breath of fresh air. It's all been downhill for me since then. Life now is just bland and very dull. All the music is formulaic drivel. Clothes are poorly made and don't last. Tv is so bad it isn't worth bothering with. The sense of hope has just gone. Eating out is much better though and so is food generally. Although I did love Vesta curries.

See I feel furious that I wash brain washed in the 70’s &80’s regarding the role of women and their place in society, I had no female role models to teach me anything different but I know I blooded hated the “norm”.

I remember feeling a deep deep disgust and utter outrage from a very young age in the 70’s at anything racist, I felt it to be wrong within my guts but again had no role model to discuss this with..it was the “norm” again.

I feel that the women in my family were in a position to stand up and speak out, to encourage and endorse feminism but they did not. They were strong, capable but downtrodden women who just went along with the tide.
Now I feel completely inept and without a voice because of my upbringing and that makes me fucking furious.

SecondaryBurnzz I think you can have freedoms in some respects and not others.

I can appreciate the silly fashions, music tribes, relative lack of adult interference that I grew up with in the 80s while still recognising them for the vastly more violent time they were than now, still remembering the mass unemployment, the run down housing, the dirty needles and so forth.

I don't think anyone is suggesting the past was better in all respects, just that sexist stereotypes were less strictly imposed than they are now. I'd say there's good evidence for that in children's clothes and toys of the era as well as the music/fashion scenes.

I was born in ‘64. In my youth I was a very out there goth: think Souxie Sioux. I used to go around in a charity shop wedding dress dyed black All the guys in my circle were very flamboyant in their look.

Anyway, I’m very gender critical. Wear what you like. Fuck who you like (consenting adults only) but biology is biology.

I recently brought down a box of old photos from the loft with the Christmas decorations. My boyfriend of the time had bleached blonde hair and full make up; foundation, eyeshadow, eyeliner (lots), purple blush, black lipstick. My grown up daughters were quite shocked. I’ve told them I used to know a lot of guys who broke gender norms but they never really took it in. I think they understand my position and argument a bit more now.

1970. It wasn't just the adults. Girls weren't pinkified. Pink was for (girl) babies, and optional even then. Girls' stuff didn't look much different from boys' stuff. My first bike, which was a girl's one, was yellow and blue. And there was none of the princess crap aimed at girls.

Yes, there was tonnes of sexism in reality, but at least we aspired to something better.

... and you were super-high maintenance if you wore foundation. I went to a normal school, with girls interested in fashion and make up, but it was unheard of for anyone to get their legs waxed, let alone our bikini lines (older women did, but we just shaved our legs with our dads' Bics). Boys had never seen porn, other than perhaps an illicit Playboy, so had no weird expectations about pornified bodies, or grim sexual practices.

1959. I remember taking one of my boyfriends home when I was 17. My mum said afterwards, 'does it not feel a bit weird when your fella has shiner, longer hair and is prettier than all the girls'.

@MarielVanArkleStinks can totally relate to your post as witnessed by myself and what I’m hearing from my old lecturers and a few friends who are lecturers.

We had a few lecturers with a sense of humour/fun/provocation and even when they deliberately made almost offensive statements/arguments in seminars the younger students would sit there silent - shocked but silent. Whereas myself and other mature students would either laugh, bite (if we were too slow on uptake when it was something more subtle) or plain argue back. In coffee breaks/pub meet ups afterwards the younger ones would call us “brave” etc when it was perfectly normal to us, I’ve been a student 3 times, once at “6th form” college, and twice at uni and I’ve definitely noticed the decline in students confidence in arguing back and willingness to engage in debate, critical thinking and actual learning that doesn’t simply involve learning by rote

“and the growth of thought police disturbs me.” Definitely!

“As a teen in school uniform men would kerb crawl us, and leer at us and make really sexualised comments to us. As a young woman, men spiked our drinks, told us to 'cheer up', grope us in pubs and all in all treat us like meat” what makes you think that isn’t still the case now? My dd and I have discussed the harassment and assaults girls & women experience from a young age many times - things are sadly no better now than they were then, indeed in some ways they’re worse as her generation can’t even escape at home as they’re bombarded by comments and attacks online too. At least we didn’t have that constant bombardment.

I see a lack.of critical thinking as a symptom of the ultra prescriptive education that our children.have been subjected to.

Children aren't taught to question or to think anymore. They are taught to pass tests and exams. Clearly it's in governments interests to have n.electorat3 who.dont question and who have lost the ability to think.for themselves.

Clearly it's in governments interests to have n.electorat3 who.dont question and who have lost the ability to think.for themselves.

Absolutely agree with this. Thankfully it's slightly less the case in Scotland for now