Call me Lisa - nurse with beard upsets patients

[Clymene]

I saw this on Reddit and it really upset me. How can someone who is supposed to care for others lack so much compassion?

The nurse who wrote the message is in the US but it really starkly illustrates the collateral damage caused by self-ID

I don't know, I think something like this could have happened, but I'm not that comfortable assuming this was a real incident.

It's just not a good practice, it's loosey-goosey. Reddit is too unreliable and unverifiable, and there is something about the account that just seems a bit too perfect.

But it has happened goose

Did you not see the articles above. Even penis news reported one of them

I have been asking myself whether the people on Twitter with dog avatars posting "kill trfs" are actually taking puberty blockers themselves, and if that might explain why they argue like 10-year-olds.*

Brilliant

The way to deal with Goosefoot's concerns is to take seriously the alleged incident but rather than discuss it in detail, to discuss the real world equivalent incidents that have happened. That way everyone who takes a look becomes more informed whether they want to acknowledge that or to go into denial mode.

Hulo - this is my fear.

I've had counselling for years due to abuse and am genuinely terrified of having a male on the same ward as me. To the point where I have refused treatment at times.

I've always asked for a female for smears and if I've needed a doctor that I would prefer to be female for some appointments as I thought that was my right.

I recognise that not all trans are evil just as not all men are evil. But when I request to be seen by a female I'd expect a female.

Does this mean I can no longer ask for a female? I couldn't care less if I'm called a bigot. I could not cope if I was faced with that poor woman's experience.

But it has happened goose confused. Did you not see the articles above. Even penis news reported one of them

No, we don't get to say that one incident, that might be fake, gets to be treated as real because things like that really happen. That's pretty much the definition of truthiness, which is a blight on public discourse and politics.

Does this mean I can no longer ask for a female? I couldn't care less if I'm called a bigot. I could not cope if I was faced with that poor woman's experience.

The situations seems to be that you can ask, but your request may not be honored, and the NHS trust may not only call you a bigot but use your case as an example of what to do with bigoted patients in their training materials. Which is just lovely.

So we know that at least two female patients were distressed by either a trans male bodied patient or HCP in the U.K. which doesn't legally have self ID. Why is it surprising that it is also happening in the US which does have self ID in a lot of States?

And FWIW there is a young man who gets my train occasionally. He is in scrubs from my local hospital. He wears a badge which says 'They/Them' on it and all I think is how bloody confusing that must be to people who are so unwell they're in hospital.

And I wonder really if he should be an HCP if his pronouns are more important than the well-being of his patients.

My granny had dementia at the end. If anyone had tried to make her jump through pronoun hoops I'd have been ready to smack them.

Does this mean I can no longer ask for a female? I couldn't care less if I'm called a bigot. I could not cope if I was faced with that poor woman's experience.

@agentnully I am a survivor of abuse, and have several medical conditions, and I might need spinal surgery soon. So I've thought about this possibility a bit.

My plan, if such a situation comes up, is to explain clearly that I am more than happy to receive personal care from transgender nursing staff, but I only if they were born female. In other words, any biologically female nursing staff are okay by me, regardless of their gender presentation. That is not a transphobic position and cannot reasonably interpreted as transphobic.

'This isn't real' claims probably translate as 'this is wrong but I'm really uncomfortable facing it'. You're right. It is wrong

Exactly this

I don't know why people are insisting that anyone with doubts about this somehow is uncomfortable or hiding. There have been plenty of people who are quite willing to talk about incidents that are more well documented or from better sources, who believe them, and want to talk about the implications.

And there have been other times someone has come across something that turned out to be false and it was accepted that it shouldn't be used as an example by many regular posters here.

Could this happen under local hospital policy?

Or - would this conduct by the nurse be a breach of hospital policy or professional standards?

Or - would this conduct by the nurse be a breach of hospital policy or professional standards?

I get the impression the rules that apply to everyone else go out the window when gender identity is involved.

My plan, if such a situation comes up, is to explain clearly that I am more than happy to receive personal care from transgender nursing staff, but I only if they were born female. In other words, any biologically female nursing staff are okay by me, regardless of their gender presentation. That is not a transphobic position and cannot reasonably interpreted as transphobic.

I get where you are coming from, however, much as I am happy to be treated by a woman who 'presents' in a masculine way when I am sick or injured I don't want to ever be put in a position where I have to pussy foot around material reality lest IJ hurt the feelings of a health care professional. When I am a patient it is my feelings that should come first, foremost and only.

So I'm happy to be treated by an XX trans person on condition I get to refer to them as the sex they actually are, ie say she/her/that woman etc without fear of any consequence. People who have a problem putting patients first should find other employment.

And I wonder really if he should be an HCP if his pronouns are more important than the well-being of his patients

Yes I feel that way too. If you are soooo needy and so up yourself you get to dictate how people talk about you when you arent even there and have to wear a badge to to show how special you are then healthcare is the last place you should be.

It's just not a good practice, it's loosey-goosey. Reddit is too unreliable and unverifiable, and there is something about the account that just seems a bit too perfect.

Agree

No, we don't get to say that one incident, that might be fake, gets to be treated as real because things like that really happen. That's pretty much the definition of truthiness, which is a blight on public discourse and politics.

Agree, and am standing up and applauding.

Whether or not this could happen, it is being presented as something that has happened, and that is the definition of fake news. You can't be against fake news in some cases and for fake news in other cases.

Whether or not this could happen, it is being presented as something that has happened, and that is the definition of fake news. You can't be against fake news in some cases and for fake news in other cases. Well, yes... except for the minor fact that patients in the UK have experienced similar. As per the links provided.

Pressed post too soon!

What you are doing is branding something fake news because you don't like the basic issue. NOTHING in the Reddit piece is more or less likely to be true than any other online piece. If you don't believe it happened then at least bring yourself to acknowledge that the scenario isn't far fetched... or do you think that UK cases, as per links, are also untrue?

'Whether or not this could happen, it is being presented as something that has happened, and that is the definition of fake news. You can't be against fake news in some cases and for fake news in other cases.'

No, the definition of fake news is where something is actually fake. We don't know in this case. There's a lot to be said for reserving judgement but that is not the same as calling it fake news.

NOTHING in the Reddit piece is more or less likely to be true than any other online piece.

It is much less likely to be true than something that has been reported in the Times or the Brighton Evening Argus.

Here is why:

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/health/do-not-believe-a-stranger-on-social-media-who-disappears-into-the-night-an-open-letter-from-our-editor-to-you-1-10147697

When you give an unverified reddit post the same credibility as an article in the Brighton and Evening Argus or the Times, you discredit all information.

We don't know in this case. There's a lot to be said for reserving judgement but that is not the same as calling it fake news.

We have no idea whether it is true or not, so at best it is not news at all.

Surely the issue is to do with policy. Individual acts, even if fictional, can illustrate bad policy

Oh dear! That was a bit erm, condescending, wasn't it? Or do you really think we all need a piece in the Yorkshire Post to teach us about Stranger Danger on T'internet? (Nothing against the Post or its journalistic endeavours )

The point is that the specific piece that was in the OP was no more or less likely to be true, in context, than any other piece. Unless you believe them all to be untrue... We all have biases!

We have no idea whether it is true or not, so at best it is not news at all. But not Fake News - as the behaviour included actually DOES happen.

Did you even comment on the reports in the 'proper' media? Or are you just going to continue to obfuscate? Why do that?

Oh dear! That was a bit erm, condescending, wasn't it? Or do you really think we all need a piece in the Yorkshire Post to teach us about Stranger Danger on T'internet?

I don't know you. I have no idea whether you need advice on stranger danger. I can only comment on what has been posted.

But not Fake News - as the behaviour included actually DOES happen.

You devalue the real reports that have been linked to on this thread when you give screen shots from Reddit equal value. A story about something that might happen is just that - a story. Fine to suggest it might happen. Not fine to suggest it actually has happened on the basis of a screenshot that cannot be verified.

You might as well be Trump spinning a yarn about refugees at the Mexican border.

Did you even comment on the reports in the 'proper' media?.

I'm not sure how much difference 'commenting' makes, but I spend more time than is probably healthy writing to MPs and other organisations about this issue. Threads like this make it easy for TRAs to claim that there is no issue.

Oh stop it!

Such a concerted effort to derail the thread to distract from the issue being discussed!

That being the only point in that post you did not directly reply to. Funny that!