Excellent article on non-binary by Jonathan Best

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

medium.com/@JonnnyBest/why-im-not-non-binary-86cf033b270d

I cant see that this has been posted yet, but this is a brilliant explanation of the issues with non-binary identification.

Rather than challenging binary gender, as its proponents often claim, this politics requires binary gender for its very existence; without the dominance of binary gender — sex stereotypes — there can be no trans, and there can be no ‘non-binary’. This is the regressive kernel of the whole project; the politics surrounding trans and non-binary identities demand not only that the rest of us accept the boxes we are placed in, but also accept a description of ourselves which sees us as having absorbed these categories into our inner selves, to the point of ‘identifying with’ them. The freedom to self-determine — a right claimed by trans and non-binary campaigners — is denied to the majority, who are described without their consent.

Rather than challenging binary gender, as its proponents often claim, this politics requires binary gender for its very existence; without the dominance of binary gender

Yes! And it reinforces the most reactionary conventional version of them. Great analysis

Yes it's essentially an oxymoron. Brilliant analysis Jonny.

However, You haven't mentioned the fact that for Sam it's wearing heels and make up. For women it's attacking their breasts or even removing them to the default of male.

Identity is becoming physical reality due to the ideology. But men are not chopping their penises off to be nb. Hardly any are doing it to be 'women.'

So once again, it's mostly damaging women.

^However, You haven't mentioned the fact that for Sam it's wearing heels and make up. For women it's attacking their breasts or even removing them to the default of male.
Identity is becoming physical reality due to the ideology. But men are not chopping their penises off to be nb. Hardly any are doing it to be 'women’^

That’s an excellent point. That men are doing something superficial, whereas women are doing something irrevocable. It is hard not to see it as some manifestation of self harm. The fact adults are facilitating it is extraordinary

I'd like to Tag Johnny here but not sure of his handle as I feel not many men get this point nor how nb is still tapping into patriarchal systems around controlling women's bodies and harming women.

Thanks Johnny.

I think Sam Smith is a very confused and impressionable person, who is very hung up on image and gender stereotypes.

I read that when Sam was an overweight child, Sam was taunted by classmates for having breasts and then underwent liposuction at the age of 12/13.

Many of us may have been taunted in our youth - I know I was, by boys, for a variety of reasons, including for having short hair and later for having large breasts at a young age. And my weight.

Kids can be cruel. It was hurtful and I had little confidence, but thankfully, as I grew older this changed.

My body was stretched unrecognisably and irreversibly, my stomach muscles separated forever by having a twin pregnancy and C-section.

It took me a long time to accept my new permanent body post children. I admit I considered resorting to surgery, but then realised it would not 'fix' the issues.

I've been picked on by males as an adult because of my physical appearance. I could have let it shape my life, my outlook.

I suspect Sam still has issues that are founded in homophobia and body shaming and regressive sexist stereotypes . He's in an industry where image and appearing 'current' are part of marketing. But it's also an industry where Freddy and Boy George reigned!

Hopefully he will realise, as a poster said on another thread, that there is nothing 'wrong' with being a gay, flamboyant man. No need to create a non binary/gender fluid label.

Just to add that amid all that 'confusion' Sam knows that Sam is gay, that Sam is same sex attracted.
Would he be attracted to a transman if gender, not sex, matters?

I'd like to Tag Johnny here but not sure of his handle

He's JonnyBest on MN.

Good piece - of course this isn't the first time similar has been said re genderism only working by keeping everyone in their boxes (there was another great piece a couple of years or so on that theme, can't remember now who by) but it's excellent to have a bloke saying it clearly too.

Jonnny with three Ns.

3 ns on Twitter, two on here.

Just to add that amid all that 'confusion' Sam knows that Sam is gay, that Sam is same sex attracted.
Would he be attracted to a transman if gender, not sex, matters?

Good point. And great post.

Thanks for the tag handle. Is it bad form?!

Sorry for the tag @JohnnyBest but some good points here.

I'm afraid I also see a level of narcissism, look at me, with this 'coming out' as non binary. That it's stunning and brave etc.

They did it in the 80's and 90's without an announcement. Coming out as hiv positive was harder.

Thanks and agree with all of your above posts!

I don’t think your tag should have the h in it, Neuro (in case you think he’s ignoring)

Oops!

@JonnyBest

Hi NeurotrashWarrior
Thanks for tagging me .r.e your thoughts - really appreciate it. I totally take your powerful point r.e. physical damage to women, compared to superficial male transformations. I hadn't really considered that difference - but I take it on board.
Thanks for reaching out - it's not bad form at all! It's really nice of you.
Best,
Jonny

Thanks Jonny for a brilliant article and analysis. I so appreciate how you are appealing to gay men to support women and against extreme trans ideology.

Maybe I shouldn't have tried to read this today but I just saw when I looked for the discussion on Twitter that he has voted for the Brexit Party in the Euro elections and now my eyes are full of tears that someone I respected so much has voted for an institutionally misogynistic and homophobic party, cos some reasons. What a mess everything is right now.

Sorry for the derail, it's not really relevant to the topic. Like I say, I shouldn't have tried to post anything today, things are too raw.

All parties are institutionally misogynistic these days. No one needs to hold the same views on every subject.

Neuro - 60s actually. Lou Reed up on stage in skirts and make up singing songs about gay sex despite the reality that his parents forced him to have shock treatments for being bisexual and dressing in women’s clothes, and the press treating him like a freak show and a pervert for the same thing. He was really brave, Sam Smith is a muppet, it isn’t new or brave for any man to do this these days, in fact in the music industry it’s practically standard. If he wanted to stand out he’d be proud of being a bloke who likes make up and heels, as it is he is just conforming to the trend for his age group. No different to emo kids, no more special or unique than anyone else. (And being unique isn’t a replacement for actual talent and hard work, despite the social media generation assuming it is).

About 20 years ago I started meeting some people who didn't seem to identify with either gender and thought it was pretty cool.

But I am beginning to get a little cynical about it. I agree that it seems to be a bit solipsistic - 'Look at me I am a special butterfly to whom rules of gender don't apply!' without having to change how you look or take any hormones and while it's all very nice for you, it's not really doing anything for anyone else. Far better to say 'I am a man/woman who doesn't feel it necessary to stick to arbitrary gender expectations' would do more good. Because I doubt most of this new generation of enbys really feel a profound disjunct from their bodies (I believe there is probably a small minority who profoundly feel of neither sex) - they just dont like gender stereotypes and there's a cool new label for it with which they can immediately confer special status on them. So I am sceptical, especially of younger teenagers going in for that.

I have a fairly 'gender non-conforming' DD (given that having short hair in girls is apparently now so shockingly rare that it's a bit of an abberation), who is quite happily identified as female and knows that it is fine and good to be female and not fit with stereotypes

I'm confused now having trying to understand what 'non-binary' actually means.
Does it mean you don't behave in ways that are considered characteristically 'female' or 'male', but if so, who has decided which characteristics are 'male' or 'female' ? Who decides how many of them you have to conform with to be considered non-binary?

Echo - but how do you define feeling like a sex? I don’t feel female I just am, and I’ve never came across anyone who has any idea what feeling like either sex is. So if we can’t feel like a sex how can we feel like neither sex?

Feeling disconnected from our sexed bodies is possible - and very common imho, especially for women, but that’s not the same as not feeling like either sex.

Good stuff.

BTW who thinks it's a good idea to let an 11/ 12 year old have liposuction?

I do wonder about where this stuff comes from, and how mixed up some young people when it comes to body image and what is increasingly legitimised as 'normal'.

Rebecca Reilley-Cooper wrote about this a couple of years ago.

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Fallingirl that boodleoops piece is fantastic. I remember reading it at the time and admiring the clarity and logic of her argument. The future is genderfree!