Jo Swinson and mammograms.

[Saltovinegar]

I had to have a breast biopsy this week due to something showing up on my routine mammogram. JS isn't 50 yet so will not have been called up for hers.

I wonder if she will suddenly realise exactly what a woman is when she is having her breasts squished and manipulated?

If she stands by her views then she will not mind that there are 3-4 men in the room whilst she is topless, she will not care that they are having to touch her breasts, she will not object to being in the vulnerable position of lying on a bed while a man administers first aid to her breasts.

How can she object because even if the men are 6 foot tall bearded body builders in her world they just have to say they are a woman.

I always think that a mammogram is almost more intimate than a smear because of all the handling that has to happen. Completely agree with you OP - female HCPs only as a right for all these procedures.

Jo would be horrified to have a mammogram from a man if she was honest. Frankly it would even worse to have a mammogram from someone with a GRC and to have to endorse that delusion while being - well - manhandled.

I've had to go to a couple pre-50 due to lumps and being in an area that's trialling extending the age range. It's unpleasant enough when a woman's squishing my breasts but at least there's a sense of solidarity. Also, some elderly women do need a relative to help with undressing.

If men were involved don't know if I would go.

Totally agree, a smear test is over and done really quickly, a mammogram involves a lot of intimate touching. I do not believe any woman would be happy to have a man performing their mammogram.

It's funny what a visceral reaction women have to being told by the Jo Swinson's of the world that unknown males must be allowed to handle our breasts without our consent if they're medics.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50727810

I do not believe any woman would be happy to have a man performing her mammogram

Totally agree. As everyone has said, it’s invasive, intimate and often involves prolonged readjustments to get the right position. I had one a couple of months ago , the radiographer was lovely, but even so, it’s not pleasant. Forcing women to have this done by men is so fricking out of order it’s unbelievable. That case in Brighton is a disgrace and I hope she sues. It just shows utter contempt for women during a procedure we already find unpleasant

Also on the Nick Ferrari interview she confirmed that it’s fine for women to have to do intimate body searches at eg airport security for men that want to identify as women and vice versa.
It brought back to me an incident when I was young and had to undergo an anal stretch . I was asked whether I agreed for student doctors to watch and in the spirit of cooperation and complete naivety I agreed. It was hugely humiliating and totally male. I accept that that it will be a male treating me on occasion, but I also would presume that my needs and wishes as a would be taken into consideration. All political parties need challenging on this nonsense. How dare they ignore us

I had breast cancer 6 years ago. My oncologist was female and my surgeon male, that was fine.
I would not have liked my mammogram done by a man though.

At each of the mammograms I've had - and smears too, I think (though more of those so can't remember - the conversation has always involved a degree of solidarity and shared experience. 'I hate them too' 'It's not the nicest experience, is it?' that sort of thing.

It really does make a massive and crucial difference to how I feel about having them done. And how I would feel about attending such an emotionally fraught appointment if that sense of very personal connection and support wasn't going to be available.

Doing mammograms must require specific training, what sort of person would want to do that knowing that a proportion of their patients would be uncomfortable or traumatised by them? And if they don't realise that's the case, so much the worse - no idea about the reality of being a woman).

I'd hope this issue is actually just theoretical. The EA exemptions should be uniformly applied to this role (iirc similar example, rape counsellors, section 789 or thereabouts, I linked to it on another thread).

Hang on. If trans women have implants, do they need mammograms too? I know men do sometimes (and it can be experienced as very emasculating from what the radiologist told me).

I have had quite a few mammograms in my 30s and it was absolutely horrible, even though the radiologists were always lovely women. There's not a chance I'd let a man do that to me. And I wouldn't let a trans woman do that to me either (careful wording to not break any rules). Ever.

I've had several mammograms and would not object to a professionally qualified male doing one for me. I would support that any woman uncomfortable with a male doing this should be able to request a female.

I haven't heard Jo Swinson talk about mammograms, but she said in a radio interview that she might ask for a woman to do her smear test. Moments before she had said it was a man's right to identify as a woman and be searched at an airport by a woman if that was his 'preference' (she didn't acknowledge that the woman who had to do it might have rights as well).

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/lib-dem-leader-jo-swinson-grilled-by-lbc-listeners/

About 23 minutes in.

So does Jo want her smear test carried out by any sort of person who might be a 'woman' under Lib Dem policy, or is she saying that she wants an actual, female woman to do it?

It's a shame Nick Ferrari didn't reply to her comment with "So you'd be happy with a woman who looked just like me doing it then?"

Every time I come here I get more and more depressed and anxious about what's happening.

I'm an abuse survivor. My abuser was fixated with my nipples to the point that my breasts are scarred and nipples misshapen. I have never admitted this and have shocked myself writing this.

I would literally rather die than attend a mammogram where a man was doing it (or former/wannabe woman etc.).

What is the correct way for me to ask for a woman to perform it, or any other intimate exam (so I don't get struck off/banned/blacklisted or whatever they do)?

I've had to explain my weird behaviour of getting undressed with my back to radiographer and putting my shirt back on to walk to the machine and was treated respectfully.

This is how I would treat a person who is sensitive about physical issues and I'd also have no problem being asked to allow a man to ask for another man if I was in that kind of position.

I feel strongly that if a trans kicked up a fuss in that position they'd be doing the job for the wrong reasons.

I'm not a regular poster so not up to the rules of posting here so I apologise if I've upset anyone, but I'm also upset at the thought of a male touching or seeing my breasts.

I’m on yearly mammograms since the age of 38 due to a combo of family history and an ongoing research project in my area.

I definitely would not want to have it down by. Male HCP - I have a relatively small bust and need someone to push my bare back from behind to get positioned correctly on the machine.

Similarly I would prefer not have smear tests or coil fittings carried out by Male HCP and I prefer female midwives (although both my babies were delivered by male surgeons in the end).

I absolutely support the rights of women to be guaranteed. Female HCP on request, without stating a reason, although for me it’s preference rather than hard no.

agentnully
You haven't said anything that women on here won't empathise with.
Ironically I think recent developments with Swinson's thoughtless comments and the Brighton hospital's bigoted and outrageous treatment of a woman asking for same sex treatment for intimate procedures have highlighted to the general public just how awful and misogynistic the demands of Stonewall et al have become. This is now out in the public domain and it gives women a chance to support each other in standing up to men and organisations who don't respect boundaries. #nodebate is finally defunct and we have a chance to ensure yet again that the safety of women is a priority.

Honestly not interested if Jo Swinson is happy to line up every male stranger on the premises to wang her boobs about and examine them.

Other women aren't happy and won't access the service on these terms. This policy won't work.

agentnully
Just to echo what UncompromisingWoman said. It’s awful that you should feel worried about being unable to see a female radiographer to do your mammogram. But the Brighton incident exposes this to criticism and hopefully there will be increasing resistance because these policies are unacceptable. You have been through trauma and it is awful that you have been made to feel anxious in advance about not being able to specify that you want a female.

Have never had my mammograms done by a man but have my annual breast examination done by my oncologist, a man, or one of his team. I couldn't care less who does it [or the mammograms], they're looking after my health. [3 years clear]

It's not just mammograms. My 100 year old aunt is in a nursing home, where she has the occasional man performing intimate care. She can't see and struggles to hear. Watching her give up her rights to have a woman do this was really awful.

I had one last week done by a man. Was quite surprised tbh as I thought it was always women. I think you should be able to refuse. (I would prefer a woman but also didn't want to cancel and come back again).

I couldn't care less who does it

How nice.

What about the women who desperately care and will avoid this procedure without a natal female accessible to them?

I couldn't care less who does it [or the mammograms], they're looking after my health. [3 years clear]

I presume you would like other women to be given this chance, rather than be put off going to their screening mammograms?

I've had a trainee male nurse do a smear, in the spirit of helping our lovely surgery. He was absolutely insistent that he was accompanied by a female nurse and was quite nervous about the whole thing. I was given several opportunities to refuse, right up to the time I was lying on the bed with my knickers off. So, it was fine with me, but the surgery would never have put any pressure on anyone who wasn't happy.

However, I agree with the poster upthread about a sense of solidarity at mammograms. I wouldn't want a man doing that, even if chaperoned by a woman. I would hope no woman felt forced into having that.

As it happens, I had a routine mammogram this week. A large notice on the door of the mobile unit said, in very large letters, 'No gentlemen [sic] past this point'. And yet, presumably, we must all behave deferentially if we happen to find that our radiographer is a TW? (mine was a woman).

I find smear tests much more unpleasant and intensely painful because of endometriosis and a retroverted uterus and have always specified seeing a female practitioner. They're a source of great anxiety for me. If I couldn't be guaranteed a female GP, I'd literally stop having them. Way to go.