Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Article about 'non binary'

64 replies

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/12/2019 10:50

This is doing the rounds and an old school fronds has posted it claiming to be a lesson in kindness.

I just find the gaslighting mind boggling.

Girls are the victims of a society that makes being a female both dangerous, shameful and objects. I'm not surprised that when breasts start to grow they feel so uneasy.

Why can't people see that the default to masculinity is as bad as gender stereotyping?

As an aside, does anyone happen to know if these particular binders are "better?"

www.boredpanda.com/non-binary-model-changes-parent-view-rain-dove/

OP posts:
ACatWhoBinds · 08/12/2019 04:26

@TheLevellers but methadone is safer. I’m very much in favour of harm reduction practices for drugs. I think that’s a good example really - every year people are still dying, especially at festivals, because they don’t know the strength of/what’s in their pills. Surely having somewhere to test their drugs would be safer. With kids it’s hard - obviously with the body still developing it’s more prone to damage but if there’s a dialogue between parent and child it would be safer. Also the child would feel more supported which could alleviate some of the mental side of it. Knowing how to do something safely is much better than being told not to do it and then doing it unsafely.
And @NotTerfNorCis, it can be impossible to accept. Dysphoria is a fucking dickhead. It’s not as simple as just accepting your body, though I do think therapy should always be the first port of call

TheLevellers · 08/12/2019 04:56

I said it was quite true that methadone was safer - the point is that even if you accepted your child needed to take methadone, no one would say you shouldn't be trying to help them stop. But parents are supposed to step back and say sure that's fine if a child wants to bind their breasts, on the basis that it could be worse, so long as they're doing it a slightly safer way? Although later you say that you think therapy should be the first port of call, which seems to be saying the opposite, and does make sense. What's scary about some of this (out in the wild, rather than in this thread particularly) is the idea that anything other than total acceptance of a child's desire to bind their breasts is a rejection of their fundamental identity, uncaring, transphobic etc. It should be something parents can challenge (kindly, thoughtfully, and via therapy if necessary) just as much as they would challenge a child's decision to starve themselves.

BickerinBrattle · 08/12/2019 05:06

How can therapy be the first part of call when therapists aren’t permitted to do anything but affirm that dysphoria — a term, by the way, that’s grown ever so expansive in its meaning — means that one is indeed born in the wrong body?

In any event, in the US, no therapy required for anything trans. Hormones and surgery available on demand. In some states, parents permission not required if 15 or older.

After all, the girls are going to do it anyway, right?

I suppose one could argue that it’s better the hormones are prescribed by someone licensed rather than bought from the kid at school, who also sells Adderall and molly.

And I suppose one could argue that it’s better the girl get a double mastectomy in an actual hospital instead of in a hotel room from the kind of plastic surgeon who does face lifts in hotel rooms, or worse at one of those shopping center dental clinics that also does liposuction and tattoo removal.

This is the state of medicine in the US, where Buzzfeed and Rain Dove are located.

There are no ethics at play here. There certainly isn’t anything one would call evidenced-based medicine.

There is a marketplace, and, as ever, in a patriarchal society, the unhappiness of girls at learning they will have to negotiate their second class status with newly and obviously sexualised bodies delineating their very worth ad human beings creates a need for the marketplace to fill, at profit.

The profit aspect is key: exploitation of the female body is a tale as old as time, and takes many forms.

RiotAndAlarum · 08/12/2019 08:12

The framing reminds me of giving a toddler a restricted choice about what to wear ("do you want the blue shirt or the red shirt?") rather than whether s/he wants to get dressed. Can't believe the fucking cheek of talking to parents amd adults that way. The dangerous arrogance, too, insisting that it will happen, willy-nilly. Rejecting one's body or sex is not inevitable.

SonEtLumiere · 08/12/2019 08:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MIdgebabe · 08/12/2019 08:43

The trouble is that once an binding option has been discovered and generally accepted as an ok solution, a girl knows she just has to hang in there and it will be provided. It changes the girls outlook if it's not presented as a harmful option of last resort . You have already messed with her mind

AGH1947 · 08/12/2019 09:02

@NotTerfNorCis so are you saying trans people should be made to go against everything they feel? Or are you saying trans people do not exist?

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/12/2019 09:25

Please explain what you mean by a 'trans person?'

OP posts:
DuMondeB · 08/12/2019 09:34

That Rain Dove story is fake as fuck.

AGH1947 · 08/12/2019 09:37

@NeurotrashWarrior I am a trans man so take that as you will

AGH1947 · 08/12/2019 09:39

@NeurotrashWarrior a person who is transgender or transsexual

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/12/2019 10:44

It's confusing as the "umbrella" is so wide these days. So clarity is needed in discussion and debate.

OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 08/12/2019 10:47

Or are you saying trans people do not exist?

And this is precisely why the transsexuals I know argue we absolutely need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and extremely rigorous gatekeeping.

Rain dove isn't transsexual. She's gender non conforming.

She writes about being thrown out of women's loos for looking androgynous and not conforming to gender stereotypes.

This is a very different kettle of fish to wanting to change sex.

OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 08/12/2019 10:48

*they, massive apologies to Rain.

OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 08/12/2019 10:48

Ish.

OP posts:
SonEtLumiere · 08/12/2019 10:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AGH1947 · 08/12/2019 13:19

@SonEtLumiere unless you have gender dysphoria then I don't think you can really comment on stuff you have no clue about! Simple!

birdsdestiny · 08/12/2019 13:21

Does that apply to everything. If you are not a woman you cant comment on stuff you have no clue about?

Melroses · 08/12/2019 13:24

If gender is a spectrum then there is no binary to be non binary about.

Sorted.

Melroses · 08/12/2019 13:25

Of course, everyone is non-binary then.

AGH1947 · 08/12/2019 13:26

@birdsdestiny I simply came on to answer the question the op asked. Not to listen to people's opinions on what I can do to my own body.

MIdgebabe · 08/12/2019 13:29

Well I am not a transman.
But I am pretty sure if I was 30 years younger I would be.
If we look at my feelings as an older child and through my teenage years, i couldn't understand what had gone wrong, why I wasn't David. I certainly wasn't a girl. There is darker stuff too. But trans wasn't given to me as a option.

Which meant I just had to face reality and get on with living.

as I get older I understand and am grateful for my health, lack of medicalisation, mental strength, and pride at what I have achieved despite being female, how I have helped change minds about women ( cringe, sorry , just an ordinary woman in tech, one of the fist however recruited into the company)

So body dismorphia, yes, gender dysmorphia, also yes, yet clearly i never trans I guess, but I will never accept female as a gender identity.

but my question is then do you tell true trans and those who can grow into themselves ? Accept themselves warts and all.

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/12/2019 13:30

AGH1947

This article isn't about you, (I assume) an adult.

This is about a child wishing to change sex and a famous model basically saying, yes go ahead.

OP posts:
DuMondeB · 08/12/2019 13:32

unless you have gender dysphoria then I don't think you can really comment on stuff you have no clue about! Simple!

Excellent. Now, can you please start telling transwomen that they know fuck all about being a woman? Thanks in advance.

Thelnebriati · 08/12/2019 13:34

Growing up a fair percentage if us were constantly embarassed by our changing bodies, the reaction of boys and men didn't help. If you didn't grow up a girl then butt out, you can't imagine what it was like.

Is there such a thing as grooming by proxy? Safeguarding states that safe adults don't mimic the behaviours of unsafe adults. It confuses children and erodes their boundaries, it creates an illusion of trust.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread