DNA and chromosomes

[isabellerossignol]

This might be verging on an idiotic question but I'm just going to ask it anyway.

This whole argument about having been born in the wrong body, having a brain that belongs to the opposite sex etc. I'm assuming that all the markers that are through every cell in our bodies also apply to brain cells as well? If you took a biopsy of brain tissue it would also have XX or XY markers? So does that not categorically refute the idea of a brain in a non matching body?

The extent of my biology knowledge is GCSE and what I've read online, so please forgive the idiotic question.

Cut and pasted but it’s all accurate:

“First of all there are all kind of flying animals: you can have birds, then you can have insects which grow their wings at a certain point in their life, then there are fish that use their fins as wings, and mammals (bats). Oh did you mean humans? Oh ok then. You can fly because you are in a Boeing 747, or because you have strapped yourself to a handglider. And humans can fly because they have grown wings. And vice - effing - versa. Don't use science to justify your bigotry. The world is way too weird for that shit.“

While it is a logical impossibility to prove a negative, I think it's fairly safe to say that no human, ever, has ever grown wings. Not one. Big Bird was dressing up for the camera.

We can fly in a plane but we aren't birds. And no amount of wearing feathers will make us so.

If you are XX but have the brain and heart of a make then someone needs to call the cops.

Male not make

You can be male because you were born female, but you have 5-alphareductase deficiency and so you grew a penis at age 12. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but you are insensitive to androgens, and so you have a female body. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but your Y is missing the SRY gene, and so you have a female body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's HAS an SRY gene, and so you have a male body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes - but also a Y. You can be female because you have only one X chromosome at all.

All the above do happen, some rarer than others. The process of producing humans (including their sex) involves many steps - sometimes things go wrong. Shit happens.

And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male That bit is not true, not without something else happening - its in only in the mind....(caveat - as far as we know)

^ And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male^ That bit is not true, not without something else happening - its in only in the mind....(caveat - as far as we know)

The only 'something else happening' which could make that true is to completely redefine what the word 'Male' means. (Of course, no one can ever come up with anything sensible for what that redefinition would be)

The only 'something else happening' which could make that true is to completely redefine what the word 'Male' means. (Of course, no one can ever come up with anything sensible for what that redefinition would be)

I had in mind a translocation mutation where the SRY gene (Y chromosome's be all and end all gene) moves to a X chromosome - I've now looked it up on internet, see XX male syndrome on wiki.

I was considering that in the context of adults, not DSDs arising during fertilisation/foetal development. XX Male syndrome isn't about having 'Male heart and mind'.

XX Male syndrome isn't about having 'Male heart and mind'

Phenotype does vary in these individuals, according, to the wiki entry. I guess some of these individuals present very convincingly as men, despite their XX genotype.

No idea what amounts to having a 'male heart and mind'.

Here’s the sociological definition of gender I would use. It clearly delineates the key difference between women and any type of trans woman (eg self ID or transsexual). It DOES include some XY people (CAIS and Swyer primarily):

women experience misogyny from birth because they are perceived to be the sex that can gestate young and are this subject to the sex role stereotypes associated with the female sex. In the west this means girls are expected to be less intelligent, especially at numbers, more shallow, and more emotional. They will be socialized to be kind and accommodating to others, especially to males, and to believe their worth is Tied to how attractive they are rather than what they can do. They are more likely to be sexually assaulted and less likely to assault others as a result of this socialization.

Trans women experienced none of this. Like other natal boys, these individuals were perceived, from birth based on their anatomy, to be the sex that has a penis and can ejaculate sperm. They were then socialized to believe they are individuals with agency whose desires are important and should be catered to. They are expected to excel in physical endeavors, academically and in their careers, and if their appearance is a bit sloppy who cares? It’s the thought that counts. They are expected to be less emotional and more intellectual, to be brave and independent.

In short, because trans women do not experience anything resembling the ritualized forced submission that girls do, I don’t personally consider them women.

They may eventually pass well enough as women that people will subject them to misogyny in adulthood. I imagine given they haven’t been dealing with it their whole lives like women and girls have that they find it to be quite a shock. Or maybe they never pass and then can say things like “the hardest thing about being a woman is how to decide what to wear in the morning”. Because really they do not get it.

Why are people deliberately conflating intersex with trans again?

Phenotype does vary in these individuals, according, to the wiki entry. I guess some of these individuals present very convincingly as men, despite their XX genotype.

My understanding is that these individuals usually have the SRY gene (which determines male sex) on another chromosome. Given they have the “trigger” sry gene, they are biologically male despite being XY (born with a penis usually).

Klinefelter males may have similarities (these males are XXY so have SRY).

Btw in case anyone’s wondering the bulk of the stupid 1.7% intersex number that’s thrown around are XO women and XXY men who are not in any way intersex. They are as stated women and men with extra or missing chromosomes.

Once you get rid of cases that are clearly male and female at birth you have less than 1/10000 iirc

biologically male despite being XX

All this is actually irrelevant. Someone like Rach Mc does not have a DSD. Just has the feelz

DSDs are provable and well defined. You don't need to see into people's souls to identify.

They are more likely to be sexually assaulted and less likely to assault others as a result of this socialization

It is not just socialisation that makes women more likely to be assaulted and men more likely to assault; it is also biology -testosterone, strength, penis, having the gestate and raise any child arising from the assault...

It would be feasible, in the vanishingly rare situation of being a chimera, to have a male brain and female leg for example. I mean there's only less than a hundred people in the world who are chimeras, but it's possible.

I thought this made point succinctly.