Searching for a party - LibDems on trans

[crosstalk]

This is the response the LibDems gave me. My concerns are in bold
The Liberal Democrats will introduce a policy which will allow people to be recognised as their gender, without the dehumanising process of being diagnosed and proving their identity.

This will mean that trans people will be able to transition and receive support from the NHS without a gender dysphoria diagnosis. This will also stop the two-year waiting period to get a Gender Recognition Certificate a period which is routinely ignored, forcing trans people to be denied their gender recognition for even longer.

This waiting period and diagnosis is often dehumanising and distressing for trans people, it includes invasive personal questions and outdated understandings of gender and sex. By allowing people to self-identify, the Liberal Democrats would ensure trans people are treated with respect throughout their transition.

A person’s trans identity is not one which it taken lightly, and they are often faced with abuse and rejection after coming out.

While it is true that women often struggle to have their voices heard, it is similarly true for trans people who often find themselves the subject of ill-informed and misleading comments. We are further concerned at the tone of a misleading campaign run across the media over the past couple of years which unfairly conflates issues. It seeks to present trans people as a threat to women but does so without evidence. We support the rights of all women to justice, dignity, and equality.

Trans rights are not in opposition to women’s rights, and trans women have used single sex facilities for decades without a problem. Behaviour in those spaces is covered by public order offences, meaning that any individual causing concern in those spaces can be removed.

We support removing the various obstacles trans people have in getting their gender legally recognised and note that this is separate to amending the Equality Act or weakening its provisions.

If you're looking for a vaguely GC party to vote for OP, the only party for you is Conservative but they are the ones that did the GRA consultation and haven't published the results and have failed to deliver the investigation into the high numbers of girls wishing to be boys.

Even the Women's Equality Party are TWAW so you'll be at a loss I'm afraid.

Men want. Men get. There is no evidence men are a threat to women. There are already laws against you being attacked therefore it never happens.

This is a major reason why I am not voting for them.

They can't engage their brains to notice a wacky religion is affecting women, especially the poor, the disadvantaged, and the young (TW & ROGD).

What other crazy ideas will they buy into without thinking it through? The lobby groups owned them too easily.

The Liberal Democrats will introduce a policy which will allow people to be recognised as their gender, without the dehumanising process of being diagnosed and proving their identity.

Why does anyone need to be recognised as a gender?

receive support from the NHS without a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

This bit is really confusing - why would they need support from the NHS without a gender dysphoria diagnosis?

forcing trans people to be denied their gender recognition for even longer.

Again, what is gender recognition and why is it needed?

We are further concerned at the tone of a misleading campaign run across the media over the past couple of years which unfairly conflates issues. It seeks to present trans people as a threat to women but does so without evidence.

Here, the Lib Dems seem to be having their own misleading campaign. Women are concerned about men, not trans people.

trans women have used single sex facilities for decades without a problem.

Whether or not this is true (and there is evidence that it isn't), this point is irrelevant if the law is changed so that there is no objective criteria to define 'trans women'.

and note that this is separate to amending the Equality Act or weakening its provisions.

Only true if you think a GRC is completely meaningless and might as well be a 'well done' certificate you can download from the internet.

the only party for you is Conservative but they are the ones that did the GRA consultation and haven't published the results and have failed to deliver the investigation into the high numbers of girls wishing to be boys.

And have done nothing while the police, the guides, local councils introduce sexist and homophobic policies on the quiet.

The lobby groups owned them too easily.

Agree. Maybe in the days of 'I agree with Nick' they could claim to be the voice of reason in the centre, but not any more.

without the dehumanising process of being diagnosed

Will all NHS treatment now be available without that dreadful diagnosis nonsense? Or just this one?

My nephew probably has ASD, it has been a nightmare trying to get a diagnosis so he can get help. Seriously dehumanising and difficult.

Can't wait to hear what lib dems are planning for people like him now self-diagnosis without needing evidence is enough for NHS treatment.

crosstalk, was this from Lib Dems HQ, a prospective candidate or the membership office?

thanks

While it is true that women often struggle to have their voices heard, it is similarly true for trans people who often find themselves the subject of ill-informed and misleading comments. We are further concerned at the tone of a misleading campaign run across the media over the past couple of years which unfairly conflates issues. It seeks to present trans people as a threat to women but does so without evidence. We support the rights of all women to justice, dignity, and equality.

Trans rights are not in opposition to women’s rights, and trans women have used single sex facilities for decades without a problem. Behaviour in those spaces is covered by public order offences, meaning that any individual causing concern in those spaces can be removed.

This is almost word for word what Helen Belcher responded to Posie Parker at a hustings last night. See video below.

So either it's a generic response they all trot out, and/or quite probably, Belcher had something of a hand in writing it. Unless Belcher is your Lib Dem candidate, which obviously you don't need to say.

www.facebook.com/humanfemales/videos/432330567658587?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo

Sorry wrong post, that was one she did about how to ask questions at your hustings, following the Belcher one.

Hope this works:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?storyfbid=2232414423723489&id=2239530066266838&anchorr_composer=false

This one definitely should:

Parker v Belcher

https://www.facebook.com/humanfemales/videos/2232414423723489?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo

unherd.com/2019/12/jo-swinsons-feminist-credentials-are-a-joke/?=frpo

An article by Sarah Ditum on Jo Swinson

Jo Swinson’s feminist credentials are a joke
Fetishising self-identified gender over biological sex is putting women in danger

Men want. Men get

That pretty much, and pithily, sums up Lib Dem policy in its entirety.

From the article by Sarah Ditum, Jo Swinson wrote this:

"Before she took charge of her party, in the doldrum years between 2015 and 2017 when she was out of Parliament, she wrote a book called Equal Power: Gender Equality and How to Achieve it, which presents itself as a manifesto for solving the male dominance of politics."

Who knew transition was the answer

I suppose it's quite logical, when you think about it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Lib Dems gaining any seats this election.

At least Labour have paid lip service to strengthening the exemptions in the equality act in their manifesto. Unlike all the others.

Who knew transition was the answer

She does actually seem to believe it is.

Writing in Equal Power about her time working at Viking FM in the 2000s and how male-dominated radio is, she says: “In fact the gender balance was slightly better than we knew at the time, as our anchor breakfast presenter was Stephanie Hirst, at the time known as Simon.” She does not appear to be joking.

At least Labour have paid lip service to strengthening the exemptions in the equality act in their manifesto.

Which will mean precisely nothing alongside self id, where everyone simply chooses their own sex.

At least Labour have paid lip service to strengthening the exemptions in the equality act in their manifesto. Unlike all the others.

Yes indeed. This is a great start and putting pressure on MPs to uphold and strengthen these exemptions feels like the most effective thing that be done politically at the moment. It's in the manifesto and so there can be no push back.

If these exemptions are properly enforced then possessing a GRC will have less meaning and women will be better protected.

None of the other parties seem to give a toss.

It's in the manifesto and so there can be no push back.

There can, will be, and already has been.

Push back from the MPs themselves or from TRAs?

Both. You don't seem very aware of what's been going on?

Well I emailed them a while ago after Jo Swinson's lesbians are as big a risk in a DV refuge as men to tell them I won't vote for them. I would be surprised if I was alone.

There you go, Sappho

It's a long thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3749319-Labour-promises-to-keep-single-sex-exemptions

But let's not derail a discussion of how shit the Lib Dems are with how shit Labour are.

If these exemptions are properly enforced then possessing a GRC will have less meaning and women will be better protected.

Read the thread Ereshkigal linked to, and pay attention to my post near the end of the thread where I quote what some legal experts have said about this.

Self-ID for GRCs means that single sex spaces can no longer exist.