Nicola Sturgeon - Radio 5 Live - this morning

[flintyminty]

I haven't listenend to this but DH flagged up that she answered questions on gender and self-id. Will try and catch up later.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bvth

Sorry, don't know the start point for the topic.

Yes, here's a good example of that from TRA law professor Alex Sharpe.

That is an utterly lovely example. For those who can't be arsed to find it:

Sharpe makes this ridiculous claim:

by virtue of Section 7 of the Equality Act 2010, all trans women who have undergone, are undergoing, or intend to undergo a process of gender transition (this need not be medical transition) are, irrespective of whether they have a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC), already, subject to some exceptions, legally able to access women-only spaces.

Katie Bryan pins her down over several comments, most relevant include:

KB When I look at schedule 7 it just defines what the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment” is? I can’t find where it specifies that people with this specific protected characteristic should routinely have access to the sex segregated spaces of the opposite sex? I’d really appreciate if you can point me to this in the text of the Equality Act

AS The Equality Act does not refer to any such right. It is a default right. In a liberal society people can do things provided they are not forbidden. The presumption favours liberty.

KB So the EA itself doesn’t actually give people with the protected characteristic of “gender reassignment” any special rights to access the spaces of the opposite sex?.......Your statement that it has nothing to do with the EA (which I feel you were a tiny bit misleading about in your blog when you said (paraphrased) “by virtue of section 7 of the Equality Act they can already access women’s spaces”) means that is true, surely?

AS What I meant to say before was that the EA does not refer directly to a right to enter women’s bathrooms etc. It does not say so in these terms. Rather, it is implicit. If discrimination is to be avoided, trans people covered by s. 7 must be treated in accordance with their gender identity, subject, of course, to the exceptions contained in Schedule 3. So there are positive rights here.

Followed by the obligatory:

I see that you, Kati, just want to score points rather than get to the truth of things. Accordingly, I do not see the point in any further engagement with you.

Because a mean lady quoted the text of the law and her* own words to a lawyer.

Thanks Ereshkigal. Great breakdown of precisely how the lie is constructed.

*caveat pronounor

Thanks Ereshkigal. Great breakdown of precisely how the lie is constructed.

No problem, the more sunlight on these people, the better.

Where is the impact assessment for the change

If the Scottish consultation is anything to go by, they will only assess the impact on transpeople as that is the group that will be impacted by changes. The policy is not designed nto impact women therefore there will be no assessment.

does not refer directly to a right to enter women’s bathrooms

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

The EA would not refer anywhere to 'women's bathrooms' because in the UK a bathroom is a space that contains a bath, and they are always in a private space .

People who talk about 'bathrooms' are thinking about US law, which has no relevance in the UK.

If the Scottish consultation is anything to go by, they will only assess the impact on transpeople as that is the group that will be impacted by changes. The policy is not designed nto impact women therefore there will be no assessment.

That's not the point of an EIA. The point is to assess a proposed policy for potential impact on all 9 protected characteristics. I know they do this as you say but it is a misapplication of public sector equality duty.

Radio 4 Woman's Hour are asking for questions for a panel phone-in/email-in tomorrow. If you can face further prevarication and BS made-up statistics

People who talk about 'bathrooms' are thinking about US law, which has no relevance in the UK.

Yes, it really grates on me too. Alex sounds like Alex is repeating US TRA talking points verbatim in a discussion specifically about UK law.

If the Scottish consultation is anything to go by, they will only assess the impact on transpeople as that is the group that will be impacted by changes. The policy is not designed nto impact women therefore there will be no assessment.

I've been asking some public bodies about their impact assessments here: www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/e_williams_3

This is a summary of the responses I've received (not their exact words, obviously).

Response from Welsh Government about the Equality Impact Assessment for the Transgender Action Plan: "We did one, but we seem to have lost it and all the correspondence about it as well as all the drafts and minutes of meetings about it. In fact, all trace of it has disappeared".

Response from Denbighshire Council about their transgender policy for schools: "Here's an impact assessment which barely mentions equalities at all." When this was pointed out, they hastily cobbled together something with a bit more detail. "Sorry, we sent you the wrong one. Here's the right one" Revised version still doesn't mention the impact on girls.

NHS England and NHS Improvement about their "Delivering same-sex accommodation" document which says to put patients in a ward according to their gender identity, or if unconscious, according to their 'presentation'. Initially, NHS England said "Nothing to do with us, NHS Improvement were responsible for the document". Both organisations are now ignoring me. I'm currently going through the internal review process with both of them and expect to have to refer them to ICO to force a response.

Initially, NHS England said "Nothing to do with us, NHS Improvement were responsible for the document". Both organisations are now ignoring me.

That's convenient given that recently they essentially have merged to become a combined organisation.

improvement.nhs.uk/about-us/what-we-do/

That's convenient given that recently they essentially have merged to become a combined organisation.

Yes, I noticed that and mentioned it in my request for an internal review.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/equality_impact_assessment_for_d#outgoing-958220

On your website, www.england.nhs.uk/about/about-n... it states that “From 1 April 2019, NHS England and NHS Improvement are working together as a new single organisation to better support the NHS to deliver improved care for patients.”

The header in your reply to me says that it has come from “NHS England and NHS Improvement”. On the What Do They Know website I have noticed that the responses to FOI requests made to NHS Improvement are similarly sent by “NHS England and NHS Improvement”. I have also noticed that you host FOI releases by NHS Improvement on the NHS England website.

If these two organisations are, in fact, one organisation, then it is clear that if the information is held by one of them it is also held by the other.

All power to your FOI requests!

If these two organisations are, in fact, one organisation, then it is clear that if the information is held by one of them it is also held by the other.

Absolutely.