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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help!! My husband doesn't believe there's such a thing as gender inequality in the work that place.

47 replies

Mucky1 · 29/11/2019 21:39

Just had a huge debate with my DH as he is s adamant that there is no gender pay gap!! Apparently he's done some reading and it's all a myth. 😳 women are treated exactly the same in the work place and we should be more go getting if we want to be promoted more.

OP posts:
Goosefoot · 29/11/2019 21:54

What does he think, specifically? If he has reason to think that's rue and you disagree, you would need to give him some evidence to contradict what he believes.

aliasundercover · 29/11/2019 21:58

There is no gender pay gap. There is a sex pay gap, but even that happens mostly when women have had time away from work for pregnancy and child rearing - the gap never closes after that.

Inebriati · 29/11/2019 22:01

The Office for National Statistics states there is a gender pay gap. the size of the gap mainly depends on your age, for younger women there's less of a gap, the difference mainly starts after you have kids.

Gender pay gap in the UK: 2019;
''The gender pay gap is calculated as the difference between average hourly earnings (excluding overtime) of men and women as a proportion of average hourly earnings (excluding overtime) of men’s earnings. It is a measure across all jobs in the UK, not of the difference in pay between men and women for doing the same job.''

  • The gender pay gap among full-time employees stands at 8.9%, little changed from 2018, and a decline of only 0.6 percentage points since 2012.
  • The gender pay gap among all employees fell from 17.8% in 2018 to 17.3% in 2019, and continues to decline.

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2019

drspouse · 29/11/2019 22:01

So he thinks he knows better than the ONS?

MsRomanoff · 29/11/2019 22:04

Then surely he can direct you to what he read?

MsRomanoff · 29/11/2019 22:06

There is no gender pay gap. There is a sex pay gap, but even that happens mostly when women have had time away from work for pregnancy and child rearing - the gap never closes after that.

Whilst I agree, that it SHOULD, be recorded as a sex pay gap, companies often report it on gender

So there will be transwomen, included in the womens wages recorded.

Mucky1 · 29/11/2019 22:07

We are both sitting in silence and being a bit huffy with each other 🤣 I'm frantically googling to prove my point! This all started with a chat about the change in the age women will receive pensions.

OP posts:
CosmoK · 29/11/2019 22:07

I'd be really interested in what he's read too. I'm an academic and this is one of the areas I teach and research. He is wrong ...very wrong.

AtrociousCircumstance · 29/11/2019 22:10

He’s been reading Jordan Peterson I suppose.

Tell him you are allowed to cherry pick through someone’s writing and you don’t have to swallow everything verbatim Hmm

What astonishes me is why this bloke (your H) should consider himself enough of an expert on this to make this claim - and his absolute blindness about his own male privilege.

OP he sounds like a numbnut.

Inebriati · 29/11/2019 22:15

Only Conservatives and MRA's claim there is no pay gap or that if there is its because men work more, harder, or at more dangerous jobs.

But its also a fact that whatever work is seen as 'womens work' is paid less. when men enter that field the pay goes up. Conversely, if women enter a male dominated field the pay drops.

''janitors (usually men) earn 22 percent more than maids and housecleaners (usually women).''
www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html

Kit19 · 29/11/2019 22:21

“More go getting”

He does understand that patriarchal society deems “go getting women” to be ‘aggressive’, ‘ball breakers’, ‘strident’ & other words used to describe women assertive women that are never applied to me.

Perhaps he might find this interesting reading

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/irel.12214

Women do actually ask for pay rises....they just don’t get them

www.thecut.com/amp/2019/03/women-do-ask-money-work-salary-raise.html

Mucky1 · 29/11/2019 22:36

Confused apparently maternity leave is time off!! The last conversation we had like this was about arable farming and ended it n a shouting match. 🤣

OP posts:
EverardDigby · 29/11/2019 22:39

It's there in part because women give up the flexibility that's needed to progress in work because we are the ones who care for kids or sick relatives. I put a lot of the blame on individual men - partners and brothers - who refuse to step up and who leave the caring predominantly to women.

Inebriati · 29/11/2019 22:39

Is it time to talk about how he will treat you when you are pregnant and on maternity leave? He seems to think pregnancy and labour are no big deal, and that you will get time off for nothing.

Oakmaiden · 29/11/2019 22:41

Yeah. My husband insists this too. Apparently it is the men who are hard done by.

GrinitchSpinach · 29/11/2019 22:42

No one... no one else is in first with LTB????

AnyOldPrion · 29/11/2019 22:43

I’ve heard the arguments. They mostly amount to “women just don’t want to work as hard as men and make their choices accordingly“

This fails to take into account decisions made when children come along, based on likely future earning power, and sexist expectations about who will do the childcare, collections from nursery and school and who will be expected to look after them when ill.

It also fails to take into account straightforward sexism which means the workplace and working life patterns were set up when men were expected to be the main earner, which means women fit less well into many career structures.

And from personal experience, the underlying knowledge after thirty years in the workplace, that I’m simply less valued than an equally capable man, or indeed sometimes a less capable one, means I’ve simply given up. I’m not going to slog for someone who doesn’t see my worth. Of course many men would see that as sour grapes, but they haven’t had to live with it.

There was a report from a professional body related to my profession last year. Women are paid less, and given similar CVs both male and female employers would offer men more money and have higher expectations of promotion. I’d always felt that was the case, but it was the first time I’ve seen it in black and white.

SlightlyBonkersQFA · 29/11/2019 22:43

Get him to watch the motherhood penalty on "explained" on netflix.
It explains it well, if he wants to hear it.

CosmoK · 29/11/2019 22:46

I really hope he isn't a manager.....

He sounds like my ex....note the 'ex'. His misogyny knew no bounds.

halexanderamilton · 29/11/2019 22:51

Very interested to read this thread as my ds came home from college today and said that they had covered this in his A level sociology and the teacher had said that the gender pay gap was a myth. I was taken aback and asked him if they'd been showed evidence and he said that they hadn't got to that yet. I was surprised as it seemed like terrible misinformation to teach 16 year olds! They must be applying some caveats if they can 'prove' this is true as it certainly isn't my experience.

BarbaraStrozzi · 29/11/2019 23:16

Yeah, that'll be why I and a group of female colleagues had to take our then employer to court over equal pay. But of course the pay gap turned out to be a myth...

Oh, hang on, it didn't. We won.

This is why this shite gives me the rage. Because for me it's bloody personal. Because that court awarded pay settlement was the difference, as a single parent, between having to dip into savings every month and being able to pay for everything out of my salary.

SlightlyBonkersQFA · 29/11/2019 23:21

watch this with him

midcenturylegs · 29/11/2019 23:28

I'm proof of a female smashing the sex-based pay gap because I insisted (being exiled in a country with none of my own family to support with childcare, and my ex's family unwilling to do so) on my kids' father picking up half the share of the working week childcare. I argued "you are a misogynist" if you deem your career and earning capacity more important than mine. I included his educated partner in this correspondence and !bingo! - I got the support I needed. It meant I had less money from him re maintenance but bloody hell I am free from his domination.
Long rant. In the UK we can question this and fight it reasonably well.. the Chair of my company who looks after 5 continents is female. She wasn't placed there as a token, she earned the job.
There is hope...

midcenturylegs · 30/11/2019 00:05

I should say - it is thanks to women like you all that has enabled my privileged position. Thank you

Datun · 30/11/2019 00:22

Op, google BBC pay gap dispute. Zillions of articles, stats, etc. Can't argue with it.

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