I asked my dad about spoilt ballots...

[Llamallamadingdong]

He is a (now retired) returning officer and he told me this:

1. All spoilt papers are separated and declared “doubtful ballots”

2. Prior to the final count result being announced, ALL candidates must review ALL doubtful ballots. The reasons are two-fold ensuring every paper is accounted for. It also provides candidates the chance to look at the nature of the spoilt papers and the messages written on them as they desperately try to claw back some votes.

It causes a LOT of issues marginal seats where recounts may be demanded. Those candidates want EVERY ballot paper scrutinised closely again.

So although one individual spoilt ballot is not reported on, if large numbers of the electorate spoil their papers, it will be national news (as was the case in France a few years ago).

Interesting - thank you.

I’m thinking out loud so if it’s a stupid question forgive me! If I put my X very clearly in one box but then write a diatribe beneath reiterating my vote is for the specific candidate with my original X would it still be counted? Particularly after scrutiny where I have clearly voted for, and named, one candidate? I’ll be (hypothetically) doing this and my rant will include that the candidate I’m voting for was the only one who engaged with me. But you know, even if it isn’t counted I’m still inclined to do this.

Cuntysnark If your ballot paper is clearly marked so that your voting intention is obvious it shouldn't render the vote void, but it might be examined to make sure. This is what the Electoral Commission says...
'Establishing voter intention is crucial when determining doubtful ballot papers.'
Would probably be best to make sure that any writing didn't encroach on the boxes for any alternative candidates as voting for more than one will automatically void the vote.

Cuttysnark I will give him that particular example today and tell you exactly what he says. My own thought is that it will go down as spoiled as it’s got additional writing on it.

I was thinking that if those who don’t normally vote at all turned out and spoiled their papers, it would send a powerful message. A record turn out of voters and a record number of spoilt papers would be a very strong message.

Thanks both. I might have to put my rant on a sticker as I’ll be in my booth a while. Will avoid all other boxes. If I did do this of course!

@Cuttysnark - it will depend on the individual who is doing your count. So when they see your vote - they might decide your voting intention is clear and just add it to the pile. They might decide your voting intention is not clear and add it to the doubtful pile for review.

The count is watched by candidates and representatives of the candidate who will be monitoring for any mistakes. If they see your vote, they might call it out and ask for it to be added to the doubtful pile.

I have been to a couple of counts - I think it's 50/50 as to whether or not your scenario would be examined closely enough for anyone to read what you write. If you really want it read, I wouldn't put the tick in the box, write in big clear writing "This vote is for xxxx and....." It might not get counted though - will depend on how well either side argue that your voting intention is clear.

@Cuntysnark I tagged the wrong person - sorry alll!!

I'm wondering what might happen if I didn't put a cross for any candidate but instead, in a neutral space, wrote "I vote for the party that believes a woman is an adult human female".

In your case @jhuizinga the ballot would be added to the doubtful ballot pile and reviewed by the candidates at the count. It would be read out to the candidates (or their election agents) before being agreed that your voting intention was not clear.

Thanks for this sharing this OP.

I've got friends who don't want to feel they're disenfranchised but can't vote for any of the candidates on offer.

There's a lot of uncertainty about what happens to spoilt ballot papers, so this is excellent information and I'll pass it on.

Another question for your ddad, if you wouldn't mind, Llamallama.

ATM I'm thinking of writing "Protect women's rights. Transwomen are men." and posting a photo of my spoiled ballot with the unique number covered up.

I've been looking for an authoritative answer on what, exactly, we could legitimately do if we photographed our spoiled ballots and posted the pictures online. I've found plenty of references to rules, and interpretations of them, but not a clear source document. Can he tell us what it would be and where to find it?

I'm wondering what might happen if I didn't put a cross for any candidate but instead, in a neutral space, wrote "I vote for the party that believes a woman is an adult human female".

Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Yeah they look at what your voting intention may be so if you're spoiling your paper its worth being mindful of this. Was there not a thing a couple years ago in an election that someone wrote 'wank' beside every candidate apart from one that he wrote 'not wank' and his vote was counted for the 'not wank' candidate?

I go to a lot of polling counts. In my view, spoiling your ballot is pointless. The only people who will see any message will be the counting officers, and possibly the prospective candidates and their election agents. Messages on spoiled ballots are largely seen as a nuisance.

The entire focus of a count is to discover who has the most votes, not to assess discontent. As such, people disregard messages on spoiled ballots because they get in the way of discovery.

Assessment of discontent comes later when candidates look at their vote numbers and the changes between candidate ratios.

I don’t know if photos are allowed in polling booths

As a poll clerk, I can categorically say that photographs are not allowed inside a polling station. You would be challenged and told not to if you tried. This is because the secrecy of the vote is vital. In theory, you could photograph someone else’s vote. The police visit the polling stations several times during the day and you could in be reported.

Don’t know where the random ‘in’ came from in my last sentence.

”Messages on spoiled ballots are largely seen as a nuisance.”

Are they seen as a nuisance because they have to be scrutinised and dealt with?

I think the whole idea of spoiling your ballot is to create a nuisance, and if sufficient nuisance is created, the message might get through.

There's a lot of uncertainty about what happens to spoilt ballot papers, so this is excellent information and I'll pass it on

There really isn't any uncertainty. Spoil your ballot paper if you like - it will make you feel good but it really isn't the blow for democracy some posters on here seem to think.

Was there not a thing a couple years ago in an election that someone wrote 'wank' beside every candidate apart from one that he wrote 'not wank' and his vote was counted for the 'not wank' candidate?

No. That did not happen.

I wrote a big long reply then lost it...doh!

Cunty if you put an X next to the candidates name it is deemed an intention towards that candidate and therefore gets counted as a vote. The paper will be reviewed before hand however.

Jhuizinga if you write that on your paper, it will be set aside as a doubtful ballot. It will then be reviewed, the statement read and the paper rejected as there is no clear voting intention on it.

JellySlice he says don’t share a picture of your ballot paper online, spoiled or otherwise. Even if you covered the reference, you are potentially identifiable on social media. Whilst polling stations are still open, posting such info can be seen as inciting individuals to vote in a certain way and that is illegal.

The point that Soloula makes is very important. When ballots are reviewed, the aim is to identify “voting intention”. Be careful you don’t do anything which could be accidentally deemed a “voting intention”. The wank example written is spot on. Similar incident here which drastically affected the outcome of an election: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/03/ballot-paper-marked-brexit-win-tory-councillor

Sorry.... I managed to cock my response up! Because my fecking phone with it’s useless fecking internet scrambled everything!!

Using the word “wank” vs “not wank” isn’t going to get counted as a vote for the “not wank” candidate as the intention isn’t clear enough. It’ll be void because of uncertainty

Thank you.

I get the point that publishing a photo of your ballot, spoiled or otherwise, before polls have closed could amount to undue influence. And I can see that it's not a good idea to post anything online with the ID ref visible.
But what about sharing a photo on an anonymous forum, like Mumsnet, if the candidates' names are also not visible? Is that unlawful?
I'm wondering if it's the taking of the photograph in the polling station that is problematic or is it the publication and/or timing thereof ?

To be clear, I mean as long as it's done after polls have closed, is there any sanction for publishing a completely unidentifiable spoiled ballot?

I believe a paper is spoiled if you can be identified - so a fair chunk of writing might be argued that you could be identified if your hand is distinctive.