Ruth Serwotka on R4 now

[Igmum]

Ruth S on the Today programme now (starts about 7:21)

Well done Ruth. WPUK has to tread a line. Presenters are starting to get it. We need to peak the public but this will also put the wind up Labour which was probably the bigger aim this morning.

I just listened to Piddock’s interview on catch up. She did say “single spaces” (sic) should be maintained but that there should be provision for trans people. It sounded very much like an argument for third spaces and services, which women with concerns about this have been saying for ages they would support.

If I believed that was without doubt Labour's genuine position that they will stick to despite criticism from TRAs they would have my vote.

But agree it's positive that they are no longer completely ignoring these issues.

They can’t - the argument is just ludicrous. You can’t defend absolute nonsense.

The problem is that most politicians are not engaged with this issue and haven't thought deeply about it. So I have no confidence that someone who casually says something like, "of course single-sex spaces will be protected" wouldn't flip to "of course transwoman are women and should have access to women's spaces" the second they are leaned on by the trans-activists.

I think we are guilty of reading too much into these casual statements when all the politician is really doing is mirroring back what they think people want to hear in that moment.

People just don’t think beyond 280 characters these days. They think that is a complete debate.

I didn't hear it so I may have missed something but I do think it's interesting that the Labour Party didn't send Dawn Butler. Surely this would normally be her brief, not Laura Pidcock's? Now why wouldn't you want your secretary for Woman and Equalities to handle it?

Mmm, Laura Pidcock was definitely saying single sex and provision for trans in addition.

What is annoying is her inability to pronounce the letter tee when it occurs in the middle of a word.

Par-y
Ma--er

And so on.

As I heard it, Justin Webb was interviewing Laura Pidcock about another matter and threw the self-ID question in as a curve ball at the end.

I wonder whether this line of question had been sanctioned by the producers of the Today programme. I wouldn't be that surprised if Webb's dislike of identity politics sees him leaving the BBC.

Well done him.

As I heard it, Justin Webb was interviewing Laura Pidcock about another matter and threw the self-ID question in as a curve ball at the end.
Ah right. Thanks nauticant

Here's Justin Webb criticising the BBC over this:

twitter.com/JustinOnWeb/status/1189620616170737669

I was weaned on Radio 4 so I'm probably about to be geeky.

Justin Webb is definitely GC. I've emailed him three times now to congratulate him for raising the issue and encourage him to keep it up. He's going softly-softly, but he's been going at it for some time now and each time he takes it a little further. He is one of very few people who've dared have a GC speaker on without a transactivist for 'balance'. I think he's rather good at succinctly explaining why trans is such an assault on women's rights. When the battle is over he's due a place in the Terf hall of fame.

I can practically hear people like Jane Garvey and Tom Sutcliffe's eyes rolling when guests on their programmes start talking gender bollocks and both have been known to pull them up on it. I've several times heard Sutcliffe shut them down with a disapproving: 'My wife would have something to say to you' or similar. Tom Sutcliffe's wife sounds as if she might be at home here. Here's hoping that Harry's JR and Maya's case will mean they all feel more able to speak openly.

Sarah Montague has also been chipping away: she actually responded to one of my emails after she'd covered one incident and although obviously she can't come out and say it, I feel fairly confident in saying she thinks gender is bollocks.

What's bothering me is that while those above have been doing what they can to question and undermine the trans script, so many of the BBC's senior people have dodged it. Emily Maitlis, Evan Davis, Kirsty Wark, where were you?

Hooray for Radio 4 geeks!

Here's my theory about Webb. He went out to the US as a foreign correspondent and fell in love with the place, warts and all. (His besotted reports from there used to drive me up the wall.) But as time went on he noticed one of the warts, identity politics, grew misshapen and then turned cancerous. He was very upset that his new love had developed a disease and became strongly averse to identity politics in its manifold forms. When gender identity politics came along he was primed to notice it and also not to view it as a positive thing.

Just listened and thought it was v good.
Not Posie that’s for sure!

just listening to Pidcock gives me the rage. As water1oo said above, why can't she say the middle of ANY word.
'Ma er' for Matter.
Doesn't help that she just spouts waffle. Why are Labour MP's so dim? (Not that I'm holding a torch for ANY MP). Is it bacause JC keeps the ones with any brain cells on the back bench?

in the middle of crossroads,

i have basic question...
why self id has to be made in law first place?

it's just the opening of endless id politics.

I saw Ruth Serwotka speak at the WPUK meeting in Leeds last night. She was praising the LP manifesto and it's apparent commitment to sex as a protected characteristic. However when asked by an audience member how we could feel reassured that by 'women' the LP meant biological women only she couldn't give a concise answer. She said something along the lines of 'if the LP win the election we have their words in the manifesto to remind them of their stated commitment'. She implied that the LP need to be voted into power then women can work from inside the LP on GC issues. This isn't enough for me personally to be convinced that the LP are definitely on board with women's concerns.

Laura pidcock is my MP . I have voted Labour all my life, I wont be voting for them this time.I didn't hear the interview but I would be astounded if LP understood the complexities of the issue.

Ruth's first priority is always going to be the Labour Party - which is entirely fair enough, but women should be aware that's the case.

Spot on LangCleg.

Sometimes I think we're so scared and pissed off by a lack of light being shone on these issues that when someone does seem to speaking out rationally we get overly grateful and don't apply sufficient critical thinking. I include myself in this at times so not having a dig at anyone. We're so used to being ignored, dismissed and threatened that we quickly become over optimistic.

I get that Labour aren't on board. I'm still trying to assess whether to take a chance on women like WPUK at least having their ear, or whether to spoil my vote, and risk helping let in a party (Lib Dems) that has no intention of even listening.

You know... someone really ought to pick up a biology book or at the very least engage brain...

Here's my theory about Webb.

Interesting theory nauticant. Certainly makes sense. I think identity politics are really damaging and have contributed to the ‘You can’t say anything I disagree with’ atmosphere.

I've been thinking about that tweet of Dawn Butler.

It's no surprise that Labour would try hard to introduce self-ID. (That alone is enough for me not to vote for them.)

The language change most likely would be to replace "gender reassignment" with "gender identity". This would be done without thinking through the consequences and they would be many and potentially highly adverse.

The last point could mean anything. It could mean the exceptions are removed. It could mean maintaining the status quo.

The one thing I'm confident about is that given the chance Dawn Butler would hand over a free-for-all for men.